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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know how somebody could possibly rip those poor guys/girls off. They work jobs that no one else wants, for a really low wage. And then they don't get paid? It's terrible. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| "Koreans ACT so nice" |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
If you had actually read the report you would have see that it says
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| About half of that amount was later paid or settled through mediation, according to the report. |
Looks like the government is indeed cracking down. |
Well, there's cracking down, and there's cracking down. Do you consider making business owners pay HALF the amount they owe, to be "cracking down"? I would say the government's a little less limp-dick than they were before, but that's about it. Suspension of business license, big fines, etc, would be a crackdown.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
In addition...a bribe? These guys make a low salary...a bribe would likely cost more then just paying the salary. You really think a government official is going to risk his cushy job for a few million won?
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Bribes don't have to be that big. My ex g.f. was denied a business license because she hadn't finished university yet (even though that wasn't a goddam requirement). My old boowanjangnim called for her and arranged a 100,000 won bribe to get the license. 100,000 won! Haha, Jesus. Anyway, don't you read the papers? Bribes comes in all shapes and sizes. You'd be surprised at what some guys would risk their jobs for.
My point is that the bribe wouldn't necessarily have to be bigger than the salaries that they are refusing to pay.
Back to the story, imagine getting caught stealing gum. The WORST case scenario is that you have to pay half the value of the gum! But there's a 50% chance that NOTHING happens.
These guys aren't stealing gum, though. They're stealing lives. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
If you had actually read the report you would have see that it says
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| About half of that amount was later paid or settled through mediation, according to the report. |
Looks like the government is indeed cracking down. |
Well, there's cracking down, and there's cracking down. Do you consider making business owners pay HALF the amount they owe, to be "cracking down"? . |
Half so far.. There's nothing that indicates the government is going to stop there.
And stealing lives? Let's not be melodramatic. These people aren't being starved to death or anything like that. Even the most evil boss realizes his workers can't work if they aren't being fed.
Also it seems to be more than half.
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| The ministry said the amount of overdue wages for foreigners has risen steadily in recent years. The amount stood at 6.28 billion won in 2007 and 17.03 billion won in 2008. It jumped to 23.68 billion won the following year and reached 9.79 billion won in the first six months of this year, the report showed. |
So it was 23.86 billion won in 2009 but only 9.79 billion won in the first six months of this year? Looks like it's falling not rising. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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I can't remember my Basic Logic class too well (it was 20 years ago), but I believe *this* is a straw man argument:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And stealing lives? Let's not be melodramatic. These people aren't being starved to death or anything like that. Even the most evil boss realizes his workers can't work if they aren't being fed. |
And hell, while we're at it, I think when you claimed that bribes have to be big, then attacked your own argument could also be a straw man.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
In addition...a bribe? These guys make a low salary...a bribe would likely cost more then just paying the salary. You really think a government official is going to risk his cushy job for a few million won?
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Lol, you even gave the ol' eye roll.
Anyway, you could have just cut your response shorter, by saying:
"They paid half so far. But I'm sure they will pay more later. Please understand." |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I actually see 2 major problems here, and neither has to do with the government.
First, the labor board. While the labor board is generally very understanding for workers (both Korean and foreign), the time it takes to get a verdict is often way longer than a foreigner is willing/able to wait.
Second, there are a lot of workers who just bend over and take it. By most accounts, the labor board is on the workers side in these cases, but if the employee never goes to the board, he'll never be paid. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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weird. i'm reading this as "half of the situations are being resolved later on by being paid what they're owed."
not "half the amount owed is being paid."
if an employer hasn't paid what the employee is owed, why would they just pay half? why not either all of it or nothing? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
weird. i'm reading this as "half of the situations are being resolved later on by being paid what they're owed."
not "half the amount owed is being paid." |
You're probably right, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are times during mediation that the workers end-up accepting partial payment. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: Re: Number of unpaid salaries spike |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
I can't remember my Basic Logic class too well (it was 20 years ago), but I believe *this* is a straw man argument:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And stealing lives? Let's not be melodramatic. These people aren't being starved to death or anything like that. Even the most evil boss realizes his workers can't work if they aren't being fed. |
And hell, while we're at it, I think when you claimed that bribes have to be big, then attacked your own argument could also be a straw man.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
In addition...a bribe? These guys make a low salary...a bribe would likely cost more then just paying the salary. You really think a government official is going to risk his cushy job for a few million won?
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Lol, you even gave the ol' eye roll.
Anyway, you could have just cut your response shorter, by saying:
"They paid half so far. But I'm sure they will pay more later. Please understand." |
So basically you have nothing...just a couple of childish jibes. Gottcha.
Oh and BTW you should ask for your money back regarding the basic logic class. The title of the thread was that unpaid salaries spike when we see that the amount not paid actually fell. It's called pointing out a contradiction as opposed to being a strawman.
Better luck next time. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
weird. i'm reading this as "half of the situations are being resolved later on by being paid what they're owed."
not "half the amount owed is being paid."
if an employer hasn't paid what the employee is owed, why would they just pay half? why not either all of it or nothing? |
No, half the amount was paid it says above.
And it's not that employers are paying half, it's that half the employers haven't paid while the other half has. Anyway this is encouraging news...let's hope the government actually follows through on its pledge. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Korean industry relies on immigrants for cheap labor. They stiff enough of them and they're going to find it tough replacing them. Besides that, they go home and badmouth Korea, putting a dent in Korea's overseas image.
The government realizes all this and works pretty hard to protect immigrant workers (all labor in fact). Knock the government for being inefficient and corrupt, but things regarding immigration and labor have really improved. |
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