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language question

 
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:36 pm    Post subject: language question Reply with quote

i have a question that no korean seems to be able to answer so far and i have a feeling that one of the budding linguists here at daves might be able to help me.

when using adjectives and verbs in hangul, what is the rule (if there is one) to using "고" vs. "하고" as "and". it seems all nouns use "하고" but there doesn't seem to be any definitive rule for adjectives and verbs which is strange because hangul is all about definitive rules.

can anyone enlighten me (and the handful of koreans i've asked)?
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furtakk



Joined: 02 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my korean level is probably only at the higher beginner level, so don't quote me on everything. i'm sure others know better, so maybe someone else can explain a little further.

as far as i know, with adjectives you only need to use 고.

with verbs, it depends entirely on what you are trying to say. 고 can be used when describing 2 separate actions i.e. 숙제를 하고 음악을 들어요 (i'm doing homework and listening to music).

however, there are other ways to connect verbs when they are related or when you are trying to say something else.

집에 가서 밥을 먹었어요 (i went home and ate).

집에 간 다음에 숙제를 할거 예요 (i'm going home and then i will do my homework).

there are probably a ton more, but i can't think of them right now or have not learned them yet.
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nathanrutledge



Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you give an example of what you're trying to say?

First, verbs and adjectives are the SAME THING in Korean. They all end with -다. Thus, any verb or adjective where you want to say "and" is going to end with 고. 하고 literally means "do also". You can use it for "and" and it's taught for "and" but if you listen to most Koreans, they will frequently use 와 and 과 (depending on the word before consonant/vowel) and 랑.

I asked my university students and the general consensus is that 랑 is the most common in conversation. 와/과 is most common in writing. 하고 is somewhere in the middle. My personal feeling is that it's more academic. My gf usually uses the shorter ones.

As far as rules go, just look at the words. If it's a verb/adjective it ends with 고. SOME of those happen to be 하다 verbs, and thus you get 하고.
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danby_ll



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: language question Reply with quote

wishfullthinkng wrote:
i have a question that no korean seems to be able to answer so far and i have a feeling that one of the budding linguists here at daves might be able to help me.

when using adjectives and verbs in hangul, what is the rule (if there is one) to using "고" vs. "하고" as "and". it seems all nouns use "하고" but there doesn't seem to be any definitive rule for adjectives and verbs which is strange because hangul is all about definitive rules.

can anyone enlighten me (and the handful of koreans i've asked)?


You just attach 고 onto the verb stem.
저녁을 먹고 샤워를 했다 - I ate dinner and took a shower. (먹다 - remove the 다 and add 고)
어머니는 예쁘고 착하다 - My mother is pretty and kind. (예쁘다 - same thing)

하고 is used for nouns, you're right. 사과하고 우유를 샀다 - I bought apples and milk.

You'll also see 하고 if the verb is a 하다 verb.
쇼핑하고 영화를 봤다 - I went shopping and watched a movie.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: language question Reply with quote

danby_ll wrote:
사과하고 우유를 샀다

This sound kind of odd, I think 와 in place of 하고 would be more appropriate. Most Koreans tend to use 하고 with verbs with the meaning of 'to do'. The sentence to me means - apologized and then I bought milk.
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zappadelta



Joined: 31 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: language question Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
danby_ll wrote:
사과하고 우유를 샀다

This sound kind of odd, I think 와 in place of 하고 would be more appropriate. Most Koreans tend to use 하고 with verbs with the meaning of 'to do'. The sentence to me means - apologized and then I bought milk.


In conversation, 사과랑 우유를 샀다 would be more common.
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Jake_Kim



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: language question Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
danby_ll wrote:
사과하고 우유를 샀다

This sound kind of odd, I think 와 in place of 하고 would be more appropriate. Most Koreans tend to use 하고 with verbs with the meaning of 'to do'. The sentence to me means - apologized and then I bought milk.


'사과하고 우유를 샀다' bears no problem whatsoever in colloquial Korean, where no native Korean speaker assigns the meaning of 'doing' to '-하고' in this context. See http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=41251700 for different usage.

However, the context is incomplete and ambiguous in this example. Computer translation might as well spit out '(the subject) APOLOGIZED and bought milk,' which could just make sense in a situation, say, the subject was obstructing a business by constantly being in employee's/other customers' way, etc. and was so pointed out.
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nate1983



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: language question Reply with quote

Jake_Kim wrote:

'사과하고 우유를 샀다' bears no problem whatsoever in colloquial Korean, where no native Korean speaker assigns the meaning of 'doing' to '-하고' in this context. See http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=41251700 for different usage.

However, the context is incomplete and ambiguous in this example. Computer translation might as well spit out '(the subject) APOLOGIZED and bought milk,' which could just make sense in a situation, say, the subject was obstructing a business by constantly being in employee's/other customers' way, etc. and was so pointed out.


사과하고 우유 does sound a bit weird.

One very typical one that hasn't been mentioned is 그리고. You may not see this in your textbooks, but Koreans use it all the time to connect nouns, especially as part of a longer list. "빵, 사과, 그리고 우유 샀어" would be a very common way of speaking.

및 is also used very often in formal environments to connect two nouns, 자/이자 is another, 또한, 겸, and possibly some others can be used as well, though the usage varies.
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