Korean Job Discussion Forums

[braindrops]

Hi guys,

I'm very close to signing a contract with a hagwon (going tomorrow, in fact) and I need some last-minute advice. I keep flip-flopping in my mind and I feel like I still need more feedback, so here goes.

I have two serious offers that I'm entertaining at present...each has its pros and cons. Please, if I could have some suggestions on some things I might not be considering or anything else, it would be greatly appreciated.

The first offer is from a well-known hagwon in a non-Seoul metropolitan city. It is, from what I hear from locals and also from a veteran instructor from the area (who happens to be my friend) the most famous in the city, and also the best paying. My first impression of the place was that it was clean, mid-sized, and tightly run (on the surface, anyway). The owner, whom I spoke with on the phone, was very nice. We spoke on the phone, and later when I went to visit the hagwon in person, the lieutenant interviewed me and passed his assessment to the owner.

The hagwon is offering a competitive salary for that area; it is 1.5 million per month more than the other instructors, which I definitely appreciate. Also, full benefits: pension, medical, and the other standard goodies. I have to find out if they will grant airfare too even though I'm already in Korea, and I will also find out overtime/summer rate, but all in all, the hagwon has made a very fair offer, I feel.

However, even though I would be getting paid handsomely relative to the other instructors, it would still constitute a marked pay cut from what I was getting paid at my previous job. It is rational as the new job would not be in Seoul, but it is still a big blow to the wallet. At the same time, because it is not Seoul, cost of living is accordingly lower, something I have personally experienced myself while there. And it is a one-year contract, which offers a kind of stability that I am, for personal reasons, taking more of a shine to these days.

And that takes me to the second offer. The second offer is from a hagwon in Seoul that plays the cutthroat game that is the private education sphere in Korea quite well. The owner, who is quite a player in this little world, is offering part-time pay rates and a pay-for-play arrangement. He gives everyone who starts a class or two, and if the teacher can teach, he loads that teacher up with classes, and the pay moves up quickly. What he is offering constitutes basically a trial period for a month, in which I basically only teach three classes. However, those three classes (total) a week that I teach would bring in half a month's salary at the other job I'm considering. From the next month, he has promised six classes, and then by January, if I'm deemed worthy, 15 classes a week, in which I would be getting, for lack of a better word, PAID. One of the teachers whom I befriended quickly during the interview process was honest and said that for all his faults, the owner does pay and pay well. He told me that his salary was doubled within three months and his classes were stacked.

Not only that, but the owner has a surprising number of connections throughout this business subworld, whether they be in media, education, government, what have you, and apparently he's not shy about using them either.

I have to admit that the money and the prospect of being a point man in the aorta of Education Land is seductive. But at the same time, it's not really anything at all: it's just the promise of it that he's offering, and a chance to prove myself.

Now, being the young and ambitious tyke that I am, I would ordinarily be heavily leaning toward pushing all my chips in the middle, but there are certain other considerations that have, for the time being, swung the pendulum the other way.

First, my long-time girlfriend lives in the city wherein the hagwon offering a one-year deal is located; being together and living together promises many benefits, tangible and intangible--tangible in that she's got an apartment there, so my expenses would be minimal, and intangible because...that's none of your business, heh heh. This alone has weighed heavily on my mind.

Second, in my dealings with both hagwon owners, the Seoul kingpin seems quite distant, kind of giving off the "take it or leave it" attitude. I'm sure that given the way he runs his businesses (he seems to be making a killing), he has that luxury, but at the same time, that's not the kind of boss I'd like to work for. The non-Seoul guy, though I've heard some stories about him as well, seemed much more courteous and, well, tactful in our dealings. He also speaks excellent English.

Both hagwon owners have professed interest in finding an instructor who is into a long-term commitment, a deal in which I would be mutually interested in for the right setup. I am a bit leery that leaving the Seoul market would place me in a bit of a box in the future, however, so that's been playing tricks on my mind too. How important is that, really, anyway? The Seoul owner, predictably, says that it is huge, but I expected him to say that. But at the same time, I would like to know how moving away from Seoul might affect my future dealings in Seoul, whether they be in the private education sphere or even with future business dealings.

The long and short of it is, I would be moving to a smaller market for guaranteed money that would be great for the area but objectively disappointing, but bottom line could save me serious cash because of my prospective living situation there. I would forsake the PROSPECT of raising my profile and getting paid like a superstar teacher (if all goes well). But it's also just speculation...there are almost no guarantees for me personally, and with my current situation, I need some stability for the short-term.

Anyway, if you've read through this far, thanks a lot...I'm definitely gonna lose some sleep over this tonight. Any insights or suggestions welcome...

[Illysook]

As Suze Orman would say: People first, then money. Plus, if the hagwon owner seems slick now, he will only get worse after you sign with him. Get out of Seoul and enjoy your relationship and the rest of your life.

[The Floating World]

I've lived outside of Seoul for the past 2 years in the countryside and recently was offered a job in a downtown Seoul good reputation test prep centre.

So that's bs, that you can't get back in once you leave.

[ajuma]

More money...working in Seoul...Great!

Living with your girlfriend, possibly staying in a place that will appreciate you for more than a money-making machine...PRICELESS!

[PatrickGHBusan]

Brushing aside all the fluf, bravado and flash you are picking between Seoul and a smaller city.

The Seoul position appears to pay more but without details that pay is an irrelvant number (hours, duties....)

The smaller city position pays less but your GIRLFRIEND lives there. Her appartment (I assume its hers) would still cost you something if you are a decent type of guy as you would offer to pay half the utilities and maintenance....

Now your choice is about higher pay or personal advantages.

Speculating on how each place is run based on what you provided is useless as we do not know.

You honestly should not need to get strangers take on this and should be able to choose by yourself considering the facts you have (contracts, conditions, location, other factors).


These are both Hakwon jobs, so take a breather, read your contracts, weigh the options and just choose.

So far in this thread ajuma has it best.....

As for the superstar teacher comment...well..what can be said....

[koreatimes]

braindrops,

I stopped reading your original post. You didn't make it short and give details of your situation. I don't care that you will make more or less. What I am interested in are the specifics:

How many hours? How many classes? What is the salary amount?

Cut to the chase, 1 paragraph, all the major details.

[braindrops]

Well, superstar teacher is kind of a term that seems only to apply in Asia. But when in Asia, do as the Asians do...or in any case, repeat verbatim what the Asian said during contract talks.

But for specifics as to what that owner was referring to when he meant "superstar teacher," he was talking hourly pay of 200-300 USD per hour...in one particular case 600 USD per hour. As someone who is familiar with that sort of setup, I am wont to take him at his word...but I just have reservations with certain aspects of the hagwon.

And as for what I should and should not do, that is a judgment call...so thanks for your judgment. I shall keep that in mind. But as I have already asked on the board, no use putting the cat back in the bag, eh? Eventually the final decision will be mine either way. But having said that, I do read the responses for my education, which is not limited to my personal situation.

My GF owns her little place, and as you mentioned, a decent guy would split the utilities and maintenance. I anticipated paying the utilities and maintenance in full, so where that leaves me on the "goodness" scale, again, it's not my scale. She also drives a new car that I fronted the cash for and pay the gas on, so the perk of actually getting to drive on a regular basis the car I paid for is another unstated bonus.

You are definitely right about the speculation of how the respective places are run. That's probably the biggest thing that concerns me--for both places. I've heard horror stories about both. That's why I was a little puzzled by the pleasant owner of one of the places. Maybe it's just a show.

In my short time here, hagwon life has been very pleasant. But I worked for an unusually good hagwon, in my opinion, which paid a multiple of what most hagwons paid and had a very relaxed atmosphere. I was protected and well-backed. I (of course) would like a similar experience and am willing to scale back (significantly) on pay in option B...but there are limits. As for option A, the money is just hanging there.

If you're interested in taking a look at a contract similar to the one I was offered at the lower-paying of the two positions, go to the contract thread...the one I posted is a standard contract, not the one that I have worked out with the hagwon. Everything except the pay (monthly, salary) bears some similarity to what I am considering there--pretty standard fare.

And sorry if the post was too long for you, Mr. Korea Times. In all likelihood, you haven't read this far either, but if you have, I will try to cut back on my love of talking about myself in the future.

[koreatimes]

[braindrops]

Well, that's interesting that you mention that, because you might be perfect for that place I am mulling over. The first thing they did was give me a test like the one you mentioned. 30 RC questions, 120 SAT vocab words, 1 minute. Since you're good at that, you could probably score the second round of the interview with ease.

And I don't know how much the 300 to 500 per hour teachers work, but I imagine at that rate you don't get more than about 30-40 hours a month. The most I've ever banked in a single month came when I worked 40 hours private, 18 hours corporate, and 160 hours at a hagwon. That turned out to be unsustainable for health reasons, unfortunately. I'm not as tough as I thought I was.

But anyway, I will "cut to the chase," as you wish.

~2,000 per month.
~3 classes. (Four times per month.)

That should be simple enough to meet your demands. Yeah, I could have put this at the top, but what difference would it have made? You already skipped to the relevant part anyway.

Off-topic, but you do web design? Nice. You have a business card? I am looking for a web designer.

And Patrick in Busan, are you still in Busan? I hear you're pretty famous around here. I love Busan! It's my adopted home town. Pace-of-life-wise, reminds me more of home than Seoul does. What part?

[Adventurer]

I would focus on building my relationship with the girlfriend and something stable at that job you told us about. If the other one fizzles, and you could have been with your girl, she might say, "I told you could have moved down here, but you didn't listen".

[braindrops]

Wise words...the ladies delight in saying "I told you so." Whoops, she's right behind me... hehe

[PatrickGHBusan]

600USD per hour eh...ok good luck buddy.

In all seriousness superstar...I would choose the smaller city job and be with my GF....

Take care out there supa teacha!

[braindrops]

A very devoted man...Mr. Busan. Do you know an area called Centum City?

Yes, I'm leaning toward the non-Seoul job. But thanks.

And I'll clarify again...the guy gave me his pitch by quoting those numbers. He didn't mean I would ever get there...hehe. The only person I've seen with those numbers is Mr. Korea Times.^^

[PatrickGHBusan]

Yes i know that area very well. My wife's family lives near it. It was a dump a few years ago with closed warehouses and a helicopter factory. They turned it into a luxury area with a huge convention centre.

We own an appartment there (we just bought it a few weeks ago).


It is on a subway line and sits between suyeon and haeundae with gwanganlee not that far. Bus service is decent there and its crammed with high end department stores and expensive stores.

It also has a large Homeplus however and the mandary Starbucks.

The basement foodcourt of the Shinseagea Department Store has a very decent selection of western food with an excellent sandwich shop near the subway entrance.

There are 2 large movie theatres there, a decent Spa, the nearby river for running or walking.

I have no idea where FTs are housed in that area but it will not be in one of the better appartment towers (unless its a rare exception) and likely in cheaper suyeong across the bridge.


As for the numbers, those are amusing and I sure am not blaming you for them. However, for future reference when you ask for advice, drop those superteacher 600USD per hour lines and stick to the hard facts.

Good luck to you.

[TheUrbanMyth]