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Bada_Bing
Joined: 25 May 2011
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: Q about Air Flights & Resignation |
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I was under the impression that if I had served 6 months of my contract I would not be liable for the flight expenses if I chose to resign. However, I checked my contract and found that it says not only would I be liable to repay the flight expense but also the recruiter fee, with no time-period mentioned. My question is this: Am I liable?
Because my contract also states that I should give 60 days notice, but I've recently read on here that Labour Law states 30 days and a contract can't supercede Labour Law, thus making it void.
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:48 am Post subject: |
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You should have checked your contract before you signed.
Whether the contract is officially legal, I can't say.
But you agreed to it and signed it, so you can be held liable.
Please anyone, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Q about Air Flights & Resignation |
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| Bada_Bing wrote: |
I was under the impression that if I had served 6 months of my contract I would not be liable for the flight expenses if I chose to resign. However, I checked my contract and found that it says not only would I be liable to repay the flight expense but also the recruiter fee, with no time-period mentioned. My question is this: Am I liable?
Because my contract also states that I should give 60 days notice, but I've recently read on here that Labour Law states 30 days and a contract can't supercede Labour Law, thus making it void.
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Your contract is the most important part of your working relationship, duties, rights and obligations. Labor law gives you certain guarantees.
First off, in Korea you are not a slave. You can quit any job at any time. However, this does not release you from obligations under the contract. You can be sued for breach of contract if you violate the terms.
The 30 day notice in labor applies to an employer firing you, not the other way round. So, under most circumstances, if you have worked at least 6 months under your contract, your employer must give you 30 days' notice or 30 days' pay. However, there are exceptions, such as a worker whose continued presence would damage the employer's business, workers who have committed certain criminal acts etc.
If your contract requires your employer to give you more than 30 days' notice, then that requirement superceeds labor law.
As for you giving notice to the school, there is no applicable labor law. So, it is your contract that determines the required notice you must give.
If your contract says 60 days, then you must give 60 days. If you fail to give proper notice and damage your school in the process you can be sued. Of course, most teachers who give less than or no required notice actually cause little or no damage anyway. Many were actually damaging the school and the school is happy they are gone and may have wanted them to quit and leave. In either of these cases then there would be no damage for the school to pursue legally.
Airfare is also not covered under labor law. Whatever your contract states is the rule you must live by. You signed the contract. You agreed to be bound by its terms. You cannot escape any legal obligations you have under the contract because it's a decision that you made freely and willingly.
Likewise, if you agreed to repay recruiter fees, then you can be held laible for that too.
Some will advise you to run without paying these things. If you do, and the total damage amount is small, it is likely you will not face any consequences as long as you never return to Korea.
If the amount is large enough, however, they may choose to follow you.
In the US it works like this:
I take you to court, if the amount is low it's small claims court. I sue you. If you show up the judge will rule against you based on the contract. If you don't show up, the judge will rule against you automatically.
Then you can pay according to the court order or fail to pay.
If you fail to pay, I sue you again. If you show up, you pay, make a definite arrangement to pay, or go to jail. Since the judge has already ruled against you in the previous hearing you have no defenses.
If you don't show up, I ask for a "capias" order from the judge. He will almost always grant this since you have snubbed him.
The capias means that what was a civil case has now become a criminal matter as far as you are concerned. You can now be arrested and jailed for failure to pay an amount that you owed under a contract. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: |
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ontheway, what happens if your contract says you have to give 60 days notice, but there is not 60 days left to give.
Does that mean you are FORCED to complete the contract, or else face liability. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
ontheway, what happens if your contract says you have to give 60 days notice, but there is not 60 days left to give.
Does that mean you are FORCED to complete the contract, or else face liability. |
Yes. Once you have less than 60 days left on your contract, you cannot quit without breaking the contract, unless your employer agrees to let you leave earlier.
Since under most contracts you will lose airfare and severance by leaving early, it is generally not in your financial interest to do so, especially in the last 60 days.
However, since your school knows that they will have to replace you at the end of your contract, they might have someone lined up already who can come earlier, in which case they might jump at the chance to have you leave earlier and save on those big ticket items. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm bailing after 6 months, too. I read the fine print and realized I have to pay back my airfare.
I think on Epik contracts you get to keep your airfare to Korea after 6 months, so it's pretty standard.
Anyway I asked about it and argued that it was reasonable to keep the airfare. Of course they said no, it was their policy. I pushed it further and said I'm not staying this last month unless I could keep it. I was really ready to buy an earlier ticket home, but I didn't want to cause any problems for my coworkers who I like.
They have such a one track mind. They couldn't understand that there is little incentive for me to stay this last month for a 600$ paycheck. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
I'm bailing after 6 months, too. I read the fine print and realized I have to pay back my airfare.
I think on Epik contracts you get to keep your airfare to Korea after 6 months, so it's pretty standard.
Anyway I asked about it and argued that it was reasonable to keep the airfare. Of course they said no, it was their policy. I pushed it further and said I'm not staying this last month unless I could keep it. I was really ready to buy an earlier ticket home, but I didn't want to cause any problems for my coworkers who I like.
They have such a one track mind. They couldn't understand that there is little incentive for me to stay this last month for a 600$ paycheck. |
Their incentive is that you've already agreed to stay this last month for a $600 paycheck (if that's what it comes to) since you signed the contract.
You are threatening them, not the other way round. You are being the dishonest party.
If you signed a contract agreeing to repay or forgo the whole year's airfare if you fail to complete 12 months, then that was your choice. Hopefully you were fully aware of what you were doing and got some other benefit as a result. But, if you now have remorse over what you've bought, it's still yours 'cause you bought it.
Airfare is part of your compensation package. You can sign a contract with no airfare and pay your own, or the school can have an airfare clause. It is generally treated as a bonus, with the cost a trip to Korea being vested at 6 months and the trip home at 12 months. There is nothing wrong with making the entire round trip a 12 month bonus or it could be prorated monthly. You agree to whatever it is in your contract or negotiate to change it. Since you agreed, whatever it is - it's fair.
The tactics you are using to reneg on the deal you made is just as low as the tactics we see some schools using to cheat teachers. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Wildbore wrote: |
ontheway, what happens if your contract says you have to give 60 days notice, but there is not 60 days left to give.
Does that mean you are FORCED to complete the contract, or else face liability. |
Yes. Once you have less than 60 days left on your contract, you cannot quit without breaking the contract, unless your employer agrees to let you leave earlier.
Since under most contracts you will lose airfare and severance by leaving early, it is generally not in your financial interest to do so, especially in the last 60 days.
However, since your school knows that they will have to replace you at the end of your contract, they might have someone lined up already who can come earlier, in which case they might jump at the chance to have you leave earlier and save on those big ticket items. |
Interesting, as on Monday my friend called the labor board and they told him the maximum notice you ever have to give is 30 days, regardless of what the contract says. |
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jamesd
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Regardless of what my contract says (I think 60 days), I'm gonna give them a minute notice and walk out. My family and I will smile all the way to the airport. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| It all depends on the school and how they have treated you. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Q about Air Flights & Resignation |
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| Bada_Bing wrote: |
I was under the impression that if I had served 6 months of my contract I would not be liable for the flight expenses if I chose to resign. However, I checked my contract and found that it says not only would I be liable to repay the flight expense but also the recruiter fee, with no time-period mentioned. My question is this: Am I liable?
Because my contract also states that I should give 60 days notice, but I've recently read on here that Labour Law states 30 days and a contract can't supercede Labour Law, thus making it void.
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Flight expenses, recruiting fees, settlement allowances, etc. are a contractual matter and not governed by the labor standards act.
If you agreed to it, live with it.
The ability to quit (prevention of mandatory servitude) is another matter and is governed by the various labor acts.
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Wildbore wrote: |
ontheway, what happens if your contract says you have to give 60 days notice, but there is not 60 days left to give.
Does that mean you are FORCED to complete the contract, or else face liability. |
Yes. Once you have less than 60 days left on your contract, you cannot quit without breaking the contract, unless your employer agrees to let you leave earlier.
Since under most contracts you will lose airfare and severance by leaving early, it is generally not in your financial interest to do so, especially in the last 60 days.
However, since your school knows that they will have to replace you at the end of your contract, they might have someone lined up already who can come earlier, in which case they might jump at the chance to have you leave earlier and save on those big ticket items. |
Interesting, as on Monday my friend called the labor board and they told him the maximum notice you ever have to give is 30 days, regardless of what the contract says. |
Either your friend or the labor board worker was confused. That information is just plain wrong.
The 30 days' notice is a labor regulation on employers. It means that employers must give employees at least 30 days's notice or pay for 30 days. They don't actually have to keep you working - you can be dismissed immediately - but they have to pay, except under certain circumstances. However, if the contract requires more than 30 days, the contractual terms apply.
There is no similar labor rule for employees giving notice to employers, so the contract is the rule. Since you are not a slave you may quit at any time. However, if you don't follow the contract you are liable for damages.
Usually there are either no damages or the damages are too small to pursue. In many cases the teacher has defenses based on the failure of the school to follow major elements of the contract - such as failure to pay salary or provide decent housing, so the school would be foolish to pursue for damages. In other cases the school wanted the teacher out and benefits from having a bad teacher gone. Many self reported "runners" on Dave's were actually fired before pretending to run. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
I'm bailing after 6 months, too. I read the fine print and realized I have to pay back my airfare.
I think on Epik contracts you get to keep your airfare to Korea after 6 months, so it's pretty standard.
Anyway I asked about it and argued that it was reasonable to keep the airfare. Of course they said no, it was their policy. I pushed it further and said I'm not staying this last month unless I could keep it. I was really ready to buy an earlier ticket home, but I didn't want to cause any problems for my coworkers who I like.
They have such a one track mind. They couldn't understand that there is little incentive for me to stay this last month for a 600$ paycheck. |
Their incentive is that you've already agreed to stay this last month for a $600 paycheck (if that's what it comes to) since you signed the contract.
You are threatening them, not the other way round. You are being the dishonest party.
If you signed a contract agreeing to repay or forgo the whole year's airfare if you fail to complete 12 months, then that was your choice. Hopefully you were fully aware of what you were doing and got some other benefit as a result. But, if you now have remorse over what you've bought, it's still yours 'cause you bought it.
Airfare is part of your compensation package. You can sign a contract with no airfare and pay your own, or the school can have an airfare clause. It is generally treated as a bonus, with the cost a trip to Korea being vested at 6 months and the trip home at 12 months. There is nothing wrong with making the entire round trip a 12 month bonus or it could be prorated monthly. You agree to whatever it is in your contract or negotiate to change it. Since you agreed, whatever it is - it's fair.
The tactics you are using to reneg on the deal you made is just as low as the tactics we see some schools using to cheat teachers. |
How was I dishonest? I told them exactly how I felt each step.
I decided to stay to accomodate my co-workers. The contract is with the company which is just an entity listed on the Kosdaq. Who gives a crap? They're better off financially because I'm quitting and I felt my request was reasonable.
Yes, I'm so low for trying to renegotiate. You're so morally superior.
Tell ya what, just go on in life taking what they give you. You'll go far, guy. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| hagwonnewbie wrote: |
I'm bailing after 6 months, too. I read the fine print and realized I have to pay back my airfare.
I think on Epik contracts you get to keep your airfare to Korea after 6 months, so it's pretty standard.
Anyway I asked about it and argued that it was reasonable to keep the airfare. Of course they said no, it was their policy. I pushed it further and said I'm not staying this last month unless I could keep it. I was really ready to buy an earlier ticket home, but I didn't want to cause any problems for my coworkers who I like.
They have such a one track mind. They couldn't understand that there is little incentive for me to stay this last month for a 600$ paycheck. |
Their incentive is that you've already agreed to stay this last month for a $600 paycheck (if that's what it comes to) since you signed the contract.
You are threatening them, not the other way round. You are being the dishonest party.
If you signed a contract agreeing to repay or forgo the whole year's airfare if you fail to complete 12 months, then that was your choice. Hopefully you were fully aware of what you were doing and got some other benefit as a result. But, if you now have remorse over what you've bought, it's still yours 'cause you bought it.
Airfare is part of your compensation package. You can sign a contract with no airfare and pay your own, or the school can have an airfare clause. It is generally treated as a bonus, with the cost a trip to Korea being vested at 6 months and the trip home at 12 months. There is nothing wrong with making the entire round trip a 12 month bonus or it could be prorated monthly. You agree to whatever it is in your contract or negotiate to change it. Since you agreed, whatever it is - it's fair.
The tactics you are using to reneg on the deal you made is just as low as the tactics we see some schools using to cheat teachers. |
How was I dishonest? I told them exactly how I felt each step.
I decided to stay to accomodate my co-workers. The contract is with the company which is just an entity listed on the Kosdaq. Who gives a crap? They're better off financially because I'm quitting and I felt my request was reasonable.
Yes, I'm so low for trying to renegotiate. You're so morally superior.
Tell ya what, just go on in life taking what they give you. You'll go far, guy. |
You are supposed to have the wit and wisdom to negotiate before you sign and to reject bad deals.
Some people need to have a guardian appointed to oversee, negotiate and approve life decisions on their behalf.
Last edited by ontheway on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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LOL
Their contract is standard. There was no contract negotiation.
Like every job, you don't really know what you get til you start. I actually love the job, but I'm leaving for other reasons. I gave them plenty of notice and am causing no problems.
I would have regretted not trying to get the money.
The only reason you're getting on me is because you need to go on internet forums and bash people to make yourself feel better.
Get a life! |
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