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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: Pizza is a vegetable |
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristin-wartman/pizza-is-a-vegetable_b_1101433.html
Problems and questions I have about this.
1) Pizza is not a vegetable.
2) Why is congress wasting their time on this?
3) Why do these companies have such an obviously ludicrous amount of control over our elected officials?
4) If enough of them can agree on something as stupid as this, why can't they put in the effort to say, fix the economy and get us out of these wars? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Congress isn't wasting its time, unless you consider the result of their debate on the merits of what constitutes a vegetable to be a waste of time. Food standards in public schools are a pretty huge issue, as public school lunches constitute the only solid, guaranteed meals for a lot of children. Whether the matter should be up for debate in the first place is a different issue, however.
I liked this response in Slate, as the definition of "vegetable" has never really made sense to me:
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The episode inevitably brings to mind the Reagan administration�s brief advocacy, in the fall of 1981, for the vegetable status of ketchup. It shows how far we�ve come as a culture, I guess, that pizza sauce instead of ketchup was at issue this time around. It�s also a significant victory for food manufacturers, who can continue to market frozen pizza to schools by pointing out that for every slice of pizza the school district can put on a student�s plate, the government will reimburse them for their promotion of good health. It�s absurd to call pizza a vegetable, of course, but not for the reasons you think. Pizza may not be a vegetable, but that�s only because vegetables do not exist.
I was made aware of this surprising fact in my early 20s while working as a cook and waiter at a restaurant that served mostly vegetarian food. One day, I was bringing a salad to one of the regulars, a botanist named Tim. Being young, I was in a questioning mode, and asked Tim to weigh in on a controversy that I thought had been discovered by my generation: Were tomatoes fruits or vegetables? He told me they were fruits, and that moreover I was begging the question. (Tim was a professor.) To a botanist, he said, there�s no such thing as a �vegetable.� The word has no scientific meaning. The question I was asking presented a false choice. |
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2011/11/pizza_ruling_in_congress_what_is_a_vegetable_really_.html |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Pizza is a vegetable |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
1) Pizza is not a vegetable.
2) Why is congress wasting their time on this?
3) Why do these companies have such an obviously ludicrous amount of control over our elected officials?
4) If enough of them can agree on something as stupid as this, why can't they put in the effort to say, fix the economy and get us out of these wars? |
1. Right.
2. northway covered the school lunch situation
3. People are stupid, and will vote for whoever has the most advertisements during Dancing with the Stars.
4. No one is paying them to fix the economy or get us out of wars. Quite the opposite, actually.
Northway:
"fruit" is both a culinary and scientific term, but it has different meanings in for each. A tomato is definitely a fruit in the scientific sense, but likely a vegetable in the culinary sense. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
Congress isn't wasting its time, unless you consider the result of their debate on the merits of what constitutes a vegetable to be a waste of time. Food standards in public schools are a pretty huge issue, as public school lunches constitute the only solid, guaranteed meals for a lot of children. Whether the matter should be up for debate in the first place is a different issue, however.
I liked this response in Slate, as the definition of "vegetable" has never really made sense to me:
| Quote: |
The episode inevitably brings to mind the Reagan administration�s brief advocacy, in the fall of 1981, for the vegetable status of ketchup. It shows how far we�ve come as a culture, I guess, that pizza sauce instead of ketchup was at issue this time around. It�s also a significant victory for food manufacturers, who can continue to market frozen pizza to schools by pointing out that for every slice of pizza the school district can put on a student�s plate, the government will reimburse them for their promotion of good health. It�s absurd to call pizza a vegetable, of course, but not for the reasons you think. Pizza may not be a vegetable, but that�s only because vegetables do not exist.
I was made aware of this surprising fact in my early 20s while working as a cook and waiter at a restaurant that served mostly vegetarian food. One day, I was bringing a salad to one of the regulars, a botanist named Tim. Being young, I was in a questioning mode, and asked Tim to weigh in on a controversy that I thought had been discovered by my generation: Were tomatoes fruits or vegetables? He told me they were fruits, and that moreover I was begging the question. (Tim was a professor.) To a botanist, he said, there�s no such thing as a �vegetable.� The word has no scientific meaning. The question I was asking presented a false choice. |
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2011/11/pizza_ruling_in_congress_what_is_a_vegetable_really_.html |
Although it might be more interesting, I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on what is a fruit or vegetable. Or if there even is a such thing as vegetables to begin with. Botanists don't get to be the end all be all of creating and defining words for the rest of society.
In this particular case of pizza and vegetables, the word vegetable does mean something both legally and culinarily (is that a word?).
I'm all for people having choices about what to eat, but stating that pizza sauce is healthy is irresponsible in my opinion. The sauce is loaded with sugar and salt. At least high fructose corn syrup wasn't one of the ingredients I guess. Aren't we fat enough as a country? Now we are justifying pizza is healthy?
Wasn't Mrs. Obama trying to push some healthy diet and exercise initiative for kids as her big project as first lady? I wonder if her husband will be sleeping on the couch for a couple of nights after signing this bill.
What I meant by "wasting time" was that pizza is so obviously NOT a vegetable, that the subject should not even require debate, and then even further, that Congress and the president actually agreed that it is a vegetable! Discussing school lunch and how to make it more healthy is important. Agreeing that pizza is a vegetable is ridiculous. And the fact that big food and agri were able to basically draft this and push it all the way to the president and got it passed is deeply disturbing. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
I liked this response in Slate, as the definition of "vegetable" has never really made sense to me:
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The episode inevitably brings to mind the Reagan administration�s brief advocacy, in the fall of 1981, for the vegetable status of ketchup. It shows how far we�ve come as a culture, I guess, that pizza sauce instead of ketchup was at issue this time around. It�s also a significant victory for food manufacturers, who can continue to market frozen pizza to schools by pointing out that for every slice of pizza the school district can put on a student�s plate, the government will reimburse them for their promotion of good health. It�s absurd to call pizza a vegetable, of course, but not for the reasons you think. Pizza may not be a vegetable, but that�s only because vegetables do not exist.
I was made aware of this surprising fact in my early 20s while working as a cook and waiter at a restaurant that served mostly vegetarian food. One day, I was bringing a salad to one of the regulars, a botanist named Tim. Being young, I was in a questioning mode, and asked Tim to weigh in on a controversy that I thought had been discovered by my generation: Were tomatoes fruits or vegetables? He told me they were fruits, and that moreover I was begging the question. (Tim was a professor.) To a botanist, he said, there�s no such thing as a �vegetable.� The word has no scientific meaning. The question I was asking presented a false choice. |
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2011/11/pizza_ruling_in_congress_what_is_a_vegetable_really_.html |
Slate is the worst kind of crap rag: one that supposes that being clever is more important than being relevant. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I'm all for people having choices about what to eat, but stating that pizza sauce is healthy is irresponsible in my opinion. The sauce is loaded with sugar and salt. At least high fructose corn syrup wasn't one of the ingredients I guess. Aren't we fat enough as a country? Now we are justifying pizza is healthy?
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sadly this is not the case. most major brands use hfcs in their tomato sauce. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| They will vote that up is down and black is white if those are their orders. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe, it is just because I just read the thread about how China can defeat the U.S., but seriously what are the American leaders thinking? They care more about money than helping American stay strong. Do they really think that young people will stay healthy and be competitive if they associate pizza sauce with vegetables? I don't know who are leaders represent but it doesn't seem to be the American people and this would be a classic example. |
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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| I'm all for people having choices about what to eat, but stating that pizza sauce is healthy is irresponsible in my opinion. The sauce is loaded with sugar and salt. At least high fructose corn syrup wasn't one of the ingredients I guess. Aren't we fat enough as a country? Now we are justifying pizza is healthy? |
High fructose CORN syrup is obviously a vegetable and a meal with pizza, freedom fries, and coke will give you 3 of your daily vegetables. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
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How the heck did this happen? Take a look here: (at 27:20) http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/
It's important to keep in mind that the bill that was voted on was not exclusively about pizza in the school cafeteria. It was part of a continuing resolution to keep the gov't going for another month and budgets for legal services, more money for cops, and more money for high speed rail. So Congress wasn't just voting on pizza is a vegetable. The question really was: Pizza is a vegetable vs. these other parts of the bill. This is how the legislative branch works--attach a stinker to enough other good legislation so the stinker can't be refused. It's deplorable, but a fact of life.
On top of that, with 1/3 of Americans now in poverty or near poverty, a whole whale of a lot of kids depend on schools for a good meal. Someone the other day mentioned that kids who depend on school lunch are s-o-l during summer vacation and holidays when school is not in session. Thanksgiving is coming up. I just hope the kids get enough to eat over the long weekend, pizza or not. |
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