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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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 Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: UK's 'Big Man' charged with assault |
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This is a great day for Britain! I truly hope he recieves a heavy fine, and minimal suspended sentence. I honestly hope he does at least 2 weeks jail time, just so a message is sent out to the public that you can't go around handing out your own justice.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fare-dodger-assault-man-charged.html
I should think news of sentencing will follow after the Christmas Holiday.
As for the 19 year old, for his breach of the peace it is usually a fine that is handed down. Same for fare dodging and if he is found guilty of either I hope he is sentenced to a fitting punishment.
A great day for Britain and a strong message for thugs like the Big Man who's first inclination is to rush to physical violence.
| Quote: |
| A passenger who threw a suspected fare-dodger off a train in Scotland has been charged with assault, British Transport Police have said. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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While I have no problem with the guy being charged or not, and that while we have a society in which the public feels that its right not to deal out its own justice, it also promotes a society that tells the criminal element to do whatever they please as long as an officer isn't there.
I mean, couldn't this in theory promote a society where bystanders and passersby do absolutely nothing and you have a bunch of gawkers watching some crook do something and refuse to stop them?
But I somewhat agree with just throwing the both of them in the cooler for a few days and sending them on a few trash pickups. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
While I have no problem with the guy being charged or not, and that while we have a society in which the public feels that its right not to deal out its own justice, it also promotes a society that tells the criminal element to do whatever they please as long as an officer isn't there.
I mean, couldn't this in theory promote a society where bystanders and passersby do absolutely nothing and you have a bunch of gawkers watching some crook do something and refuse to stop them?
But I somewhat agree with just throwing the both of them in the cooler for a few days and sending them on a few trash pickups. |
Well the UK DOES have citizen's arrest laws that would have allowed the big man to use reasonable force (he went well beyond that) to restrain an offender until the police arrived, but only if the 19 yr old was about to commit a theft or violent crime, not merely using the f word and arguing over a train fare, which could and should have been dealt with by calling ahead to the next stop to have the railway police apprehend him there.
So it would seem that the hypothetical message you posit is not one that is being espoused, luckilly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest#United_Kingdom
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6323391.stm
Last edited by The Floating World on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| just so a message is sent out to the public that you can't go around handing out your own justice |
How dare anybody challenge the police's monopoly! A great day for justice indeed. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| just so a message is sent out to the public that you can't go around handing out your own justice |
How dare anybody challenge the police's monopoly! A great day for justice indeed. |
What a simplistic view! Not like the police are subject to laws passed down by a parliament that is voted into power or anything.... |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Hilarious that you felt this needed a new thread. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Hilarious that you felt this needed a new thread. |
More personal commentry and derailing from CC. It's almost like he believes he owns the forum... Or maybe he does.
Just in one week he has personally attacked several posters, used swear words and constantly derails threads but never gets a warning.
Anyhow, it needs a new thread because
1. The old one was deleted by moderators (maybe because you derailed it with your pages of comentary about me and my motives, rather than on the topic itself)
2. This is a pertinant development in a case that has attacted global interest on the internet and becom an internet phenomenon.
What you really mean is 'I'm not happy with the verdict and feel I have lost face so I'm going to ad hominem attack TFW.' Pathetic. Why comment at all, you really believe the whole internet (or anyone at all) is interested in your colloquial thought process? Just don't take part in the thread if you have nothing to say on the topic itself or if you think it doesn't need to exist, or pm a mod, as per the tos protocol. This is 'internet 101,' jeez. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| just so a message is sent out to the public that you can't go around handing out your own justice |
How dare anybody challenge the police's monopoly! A great day for justice indeed. |
What a simplistic view! Not like the police are subject to laws passed down by a parliament that is voted into power or anything.... |
This is why I, a normally law-and-order type, while sympathetic to the big man, can certainly see the need to preserve law enforcement as a duty of law enforcers.
At times I am for "justice of the public" at the same time, every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinking they're a constable is just silly.
The big question for me was what the Big Man doing part of custom? I'm not sure it was. There are times where it is customary for citizens to get physical with village idiots, but I'm not sure this was one of them. I mean, isn't there a train gendarme to take of this?
Now if the Big Man had simply berated the fare-jumper with personal insults, provoking the dude to attack and then pummeling him and throwing him off the train, I'd have no problem with that. If you're going to engage in a profanity laced rant at someone else, well then be prepared for a rant at you.
Likewise I'm up for citizen violence over say theft and pedophilia behavior and flashers/streakers and other "button pushers", kinda like the kid that flicked off the cop on video. While technically he posed no threat, he was such an idiot that a whuppin would have been a customary and predictable response. If you drive around Harlem wearing a white hood and playing Johnny Rebel, yes you may have freedom of speech, but if you end up getting stomped, I'm not going to defend you, nor condemn those that put down a whuppin. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The big question for me was what the Big Man doing part of custom? I'm not sure it was. There are times where it is customary for citizens to get physical with village idiots, but I'm not sure this was one of them. I mean, isn't there a train gendarme to take of this? |
No.
Yes. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Hilarious that you felt this needed a new thread. |
More personal commentry and derailing from CC. It's almost like he believes he owns the forum... Or maybe he does.
Just in one week he has personally attacked several posters, used swear words and constantly derails threads but never gets a warning.
Anyhow, it needs a new thread because
1. The old one was deleted by moderators (maybe because you derailed it with your pages of comentary about me and my motives, rather than on the topic itself)
2. This is a pertinant development in a case that has attacted global interest on the internet and becom an internet phenomenon.
What you really mean is 'I'm not happy with the verdict and feel I have lost face so I'm going to ad hominem attack TFW.' Pathetic. Why comment at all, you really believe the whole internet (or anyone at all) is interested in your colloquial thought process? Just don't take part in the thread if you have nothing to say on the topic itself or if you think it doesn't need to exist, or pm a mod, as per the tos protocol. This is 'internet 101,' jeez. |
1. There's a perfectly good thread on this subject here. You've posted in it many times, and it's not deleted. So this could easily have been added on there. Heck, you posted the exact same post there that you did in the OP here. You KNEW it was there, and then decided to post the exact same post here again. What is that called in internet verbiage when you post the same ting again and again?
2. Has there been a verdict? You're big on due process, mind showing me where it says he's been convicted? I thought that you were innocent in the Uk until proven guilty? |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Read the link and you'll see he has been charged. The sentence hasn't been doled out yet. In the UK if the police decide to charge you, you are guilty, we are now just awaiting sentencing. Instead of your dense conclusions and mistakes you contiually make and my having to correct them, just go read up about it.
Why do you plasticmod so much? Just ask the mod team or dave if you can mod for them or something or butt out.
God you make this site suck so much (I've even gotten bloody emails and pms from other posters telling me as much, jeez.) Become a mod or stop trying to do their job. You're like the boorish teacher's pet nobody likes but the teachers keep around anway. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Read the link and you'll see he has been charged. The sentence hasn't been doled out yet. In the UK if the police decide to charge you, you are guilty, we are now just awaiting sentencing. Instead of your dense conclusions and mistakes you contiually make and my having to correct them, just go read up about it. |
Are there no courts in the UK? Does being charged with a crime mean that you're guilty?
I was under the impression that people got their day in court to defend themselves.
Perhaps I'm wrong though. Are you seriously telling me that he won't get a chance to defend himself in court?
| Quote: |
Why do you plasticmod so much? Just ask the mod team or dave if you can mod for them or something or butt out.
God you make this site suck so much (I've even gotten bloody emails and pms from other posters telling me as much, jeez.) Become a mod or stop trying to do their job. You're like the boorish teacher's pet nobody likes but the teachers keep around anway. |
No need for the personal attacks. |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| not sure if it's different in the UK than in the US, but being CHARGED with a crime does not mean you have been CONVICTED. being charged means they simply have enough evidence to try you in a court of law. a sentencing requires a conviction or a plea to the sentence. charged=/=convicted |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| It'll go to magistrate's court. There wont be a trial. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| It'll go to magistrate's court. There wont be a trial. |
So it goes to court, but there's no trial? Is the guy not allowed to defend himself against the charges?
| The Floating World wrote: |
| In the UK if the police decide to charge you, you are guilty, we are now just awaiting sentencing. |
It seems so odd to me that cops in the Uk can decide guilt without a trial.
Anyone else from the Uk that can verify this? I'm suspicious of these claims. |
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