Korean Job Discussion Forums

[L_orna]

Hey all...

OK, so myself and my friend are looking for some advice..

My friend has been let go from our hagwon because they had to make 'cutbacks'. She was due to finish tomorrow. They had issued a letter of release and she is due to start at her new hagwon on Friday.

I myself had agreed to finish out the contract - four months left.
However, the school now wish to dismiss both of us because they are accusing us of slander.
we have been unhappy in the school for some time now, but were prepared to finish it out. My friend recently posted a comment on facebook saying that she hated the school. That was all. I posted up an agreement comment underneath about my distaste for the school. To cut a long story short, it got back to the director, who has threatened us with lawyers, saying that he will not give us our flight money or deposit money back. This was OK with me, but now he wants to try and charge us for 'other costs' because we have 'tarnished the school's reputation'.

They have also said they are going to cancel the letter of release for my workmate if she does not come in for her last day tomorrow.

Our director wants me to decide tonight what to do - either I give them 30 days notice and I lose my entitlements - flight money etc or I take the dismissal and discuss what I owe them with him and his lawyer. I have less than 24 hours to decide which I am not happy about. I dont wish to talk to him and his lawyer without my own support.


We are aware that this is a tricky situation but we would appreciate any advice you can give us on this matter.
Can they really expect me to pay them money for this? Slander seems a bit far fetched plus they will be getting 2 million won out of me already.

Also, can they cancel the letter of release on my friend? They said they will ring immigration about it.

please help ... thanks

[duke of new york]

I'm not an expert on the law on this, but a couple of things:

1. I think your boss is within his rights to fire you both and maybe even pursue legal recompense. I'm not sure, so don't take my word for it, but I know the "slander" laws in Korea are pretty ridiculous. You and your friend should never have posted those statements on Facebook.

2. That being said, can't you just delete the posts? If there is no evidence of the posts ever being there, I doubt your boss would have a case against you.

That's just my $.02. I'm not an expert on Korean law by any means, so take it with a grain of salt.

[YTMND]

I think there is something missing here. You don't just state "my school is a bad school" without giving a reason.

The school has you muzzled now because you fear further problems? You are playing into their game. Of course they want to pay less.

How did they find out about this on Facebook?

[PatrickGHBusan]

Tricky situation considering Korea's slander laws.

You need actual legal advice, not internet forum bravado...did you try and contact a lawyer? Labor Board hotline?

As for posting what you two posted on FB, it's too late now, the horses have left the barn. Consider it a learning experience: what we post online is not private and it can comeback to bite us in the rear end!

Good luck and I maintain that you need to contact a professional that can provide you two with factual advice.

[L_orna]

Thanks for the advice. We have considered the fact that our boss may just be using scare tactics in the hope that I will stay the 30 days. We are going to contact the labour board this morning and have emailed a lawyer.

I understand that he will want to seek legal counsel but he cannot expect me to go into a room with him and his lawyer alone. That I will not do. Ive been advised not to speak with the lawyer and to request a written letter from the lawyer instead.

Can they stop me leaving the country and can they prevent my friend from transferring to her new job? I am willing for them to keep my entitlements,but am concerned about the fact that they want to charge me for other 'costs' too.

[plchron]

once you start a new job I know that you can bring a claim against your old boss for all the money that he illegally held from you.

Also, while the slander and libel laws are tilted in your employers favor as far as firing you goes, if he wants to get any money out of it he has to show a 'tangible' loss of money. He has to be able to show that 'x' amount of students quit and because of that he lost 'y' amount of won.

Don't sign anything in korean.

Figure out your new job. (Bring a case against him through the labor board and ask them to release you and your friend from your contract. Then apply for a D-10 visa. Once you get your new job, switch back to E-2).

Your boss, taking deposits and withholding salary, has broken the labor standards act.

[YTMND]

[L_orna]

Thanks again for the info. Technically we did not abuse the school or the employers in anyway. The original comment (it was following a dispute with our boss) said simply 'I hate XXX' (name of school) and I agreed.However the schools name is a pretty loose term and has been used for other companies (in the entertainment business). This is all that was said pretty much yet he is threatening us saying it will ruin their reputation etc.

My friend denied it had anything to do with the schools name. However, I had spoken to him seperately and admitted it may have been inappropriate but that was all I said. I said I was not willing to pay any 'costs' from my pay. (we got paid on Monday)

He wants us to talk to him today (in a few hours) about what we want to do. Im guessing he is hoping I wont accept the dismissal and will work the 30 days without my entitlements.

Can I refuse to speak to the lawyer and ask for a letter? I have already booked a flight out on Saturday.

thanks

[plchron]

go meet with him today. If he has, is or will withhold any of your salary pay then you have a right to file a complaint with the labor board and they can release you from your contract without your bosses permission (because your boss would have violated the Labors Standard Act). Once the labor board releases you (might take up to 2 weeks), you can go to immigration and get a D10 visa. Then when you find another job (which can happen the same day since it is so easy to find jobs when you are here) switch back to an E2 visa with your new employer.

That is the 'finding job part'. The 'getting paid part' might be a little more tricky and really depends on what the labor board people tell you. If you are friends with any older korean males, now is the time to call in a favor and have them accompany you to the proceedings. You might need someone to translate.

[luckylady]

yea, Korean libel/slander laws are always in favor of the plaintiff and pretty cock-eyed, to say the least.

however, a hakwon once put my name on blacklist, along with some not-very-nice comments. it sucked big time, really hurt. a lawyer friend wanted me to sue but I said if they took my name off, it would be ok, I wouldn't sue. so they did and I didn't.

the diff here is you said your friend only stated that they "hated" the school, didn't really say derogatory things about it - so that's one in your favor, I think. the other thing - if you can take it off, like someone else suggested, then again, the problem has been solved, like in my situation, again, no lawsuit could go forward without evidence.

as for them withholding due monies, they don't have the right to do that, no matter what you might have done on FB. they have to sue you if they want some kind of compensation, and as stated, that can be questionable.

if I were you, I'd delete the post and maybe even say I'm sorry, just to get paid and get out of there. then next time, don't be so foolish as to make such statements online.

live and learn.

[Skippy]

Pretty messed up.

Some advice - DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. IF YOU SIGN YOU AGREE TO IT.

Really consider getting a lawyer or legal advice. You can get some general idea of what to do from here but a lawyer is better. But it might cut into your final pay. At least contact the labour board.

Be very aware of the adage "Bullshit Baffles Brains"... The school and lawyers will say big complicated things with legal terms. Take everything they say with a tablespoon of salt.

Do not be pressured.

As to the facebook post. What are your privacy settings. I mean is the offending post public everywhere or is it just to friends or was it in a group.

Good Luck

[L_orna]

So we went to discuss things today with him. I told him outright that I would not work the 30 days and wanted to leave. Also, that I would not discuss anything with his lawyer. I was willing to let the money go that he was witholding but it started a shitstorm. Frankly, my stress levels went through the roof. He started threatening us with everything and said that he could CONTINUE to charge me money when I had left if students left because of our 'bad press'.
After some threatening and some quarrelling, he offered once again that I work 30 more days and he would sign an agreement to pay in full what I am owed at the end of the 30 days (my months work, plus possibly some of the withheld money they kept)
In the end I decided to agree to the 30 days provided they sign a letter I write up.
It could all have been hot air on his part but he got pretty aggressive. My workmate was there too and she decided that it was best too.
At least I can walk out knowing they wont have a search warrant out for me.

[YTMND]

If I were to continue in that type of situation I would want to be paid in full everything I was owed up until now. If he isn't willing to pay you what you are owed now, he isn't going to pay you it in 30 days.

Last year, I did these summer classes, and my school asked me to teach extra days so we could finish the summer classes earlier and have more vacation time. I agreed, but 2 days before it ended, the manager told me the owner wanted me to teach at another camp. It was only two 30 minute classes each day which was a part of the whole camp (called "Crazy English"). I agreed to this because I didn't want to travel in hot weather and 1 hour a day isn't so bad. Then the last day, the manager left to go on her vacation. It was also my pay day. So, I asked about getting paid to my co-teacher and she eventually got a hold of the manager. I refused to do the extra classes until I was paid in full for the camp that ended.

[plchron]

Just as it is a long drawn out process going to the labor board, it is an even longer drawn out process to take you to court and sue you for some sort of defamation. Don't take the chance of letting your boss take advantage of you. Find what standards he broke according to the labor standards act and hammer him with the labor board. Treat him the way he treats you. come to work and refuse to go into a classroom until you are paid all the money that is owed to you (I have heard that works). remember, you are his shiny native English teacher. He needs you. You don't need him. If you agreed to show up for 30 days; I doubt you will see a dime of it. Has he paid you late ever? Has he shorted your pay ever? You can get back all money owed and get a new job and get released from your current job from immigration without your boss's consent. Make him hurt!

[The Floating World]

Midnight run, then new job as soon as you have collected the last paycheck you are sure they'll give you.