Korean Job Discussion Forums

[orangeblossom]

I have been having some severe issues with a few of my classes (to the order of not being able to have a functional class at all, not violence or anything like that, just an utter waste of time). I work at a new hagwon so my classes can be as small as three students, but the chaos three students are capable of is astounding. I've tried rewards systems, taking away of privileges like game time or break time (both for individuals and the whole class), sending them out of the class (they generally see this as an opportunity to get a drink and hence they sometimes want to go), sending them to the Korean teachers for discipline, changing the seating arrangements (they fight me tooth and nail over these), positive reinforcement, praising the one kid in the classroom who is behaving, defusing situations with humour...I try to start every class like it's a new class and not carry a grudge against any particular student. It doesn't matter if I do, the same ones just act up again. I take away cellphones whenever I catch them, I take away vocabulary lists (that they try to study during my class for other classes)...None of it works. I can't get the attention of more than one of them at a time, the others are out of their seats half the time running from window to window, throwing things at each other (or out the window), stealing my markers and drawing all over the board (and the desks), writing notes, talking back, making rude gestures, and making bird calls or animal noises to no clear purpose. We can't play games half the time because they won't even stop for a moment to let me explain them. We are never all on the same page, no matter how many times I announce it and how big I write it on the board. I can outright give them an answer, write it out, tell them to copy it down, and they still tell automatically me they don't know the answer because they think it gets them a pass and they can go back to not listening to anything I say, including the part where I just told them I'm giving them the answer. I don't care if they insult me for humour, I can laugh at it, I can be the butt of a joke and play along, but I hate that they have no respect for me in the classroom. If they sat down and behaved long enough that I could teach something I would be effervescent.

The most depressing part is I can really see it's the (age 12 and up) lower level students and not my higher level ones where the problem is, and that these behavioural problems are exactly why they are not in the same class as their peers from public school are. It's holding them back, and I really want to see them progress and actually learn something. My principle concern right now should be how to teach the material to meet their level so they don't give up altogether but all I can focus on right now is how to hold the class together for even one minute to teach anything at all.

I can deal with the horrible administration and all the drama my boss and coworkers have given me, but if my class atmosphere doesn't at least improve I'm headed for the asylum before spring. I just want to be a good teacher.

I would love to get some advice from other teachers who may have experienced similar things.

[sallymonster]

[ayahyaha]

I've definitely been there, and it does make you crazy. You're not alone in this sort of situation, and I hope you get some good advice from this forum.

Let me also say that it sounds like you have a great attitude.

Kids misbehave because
1. They're bored (material is too easy / too hard).
2. They're hyper (all that candy after school).
3. They know they can get away with it.

You can control 2 of the 3, and if you feel like doing some calisthenics at the beginning of class, sometimes even the hyper issue too. No kidding.

The best advice I can give is to step back and get a good fix on what you think you might be able to accomplish in each class. It probably isn't as much as you are trying to do right now (though I might be wrong - I don't know your curriculum). Basically, stop trying to teach very much for the time being and focus on getting them engaged somehow. In anything.

In many instances where behavior (and therefore focus) and/or level was a big issue, I have had to practically abandon the book and target just a few words per lesson. There was also a lot of drawing (Pictionary, etc.) and I made a lot of extra worksheets for the book material because the kids would calm down when given paper to deal with rather than interactivity. As their behavior got better, we did the worksheets together instead. (If there was stuff that needed to be completed in the book, we just tore through it together so that all the blanks were filled, even if the students didn't understand. Remember, this tactic is just a means to an end.)

I also came up with games that got them interested -- this was pretty much trial and error until I found the ones that clicked -- and that is what we did every lesson. It's different for every class, though.

It might not hurt to completely freak them out one time by getting really angry. Sometimes putting a little fear into them helps too. Most of the punishments you have tried I have also tried and rejected. Fighting them really gets you nowhere. You need to work with where they are.

My overwhelming impression from reading your post is that you have a great attitude, are really sincere and trying to teach -- but that you should probably give some of that up until you get a handle on these students. Start with establishing classroom control and then move on to teaching.

It's 100 times harder to regain control that you've already lost, but there is a zen in classroom management that lets you find the direction that the students are headed in (crazy, rude, whatever), jump on, and take the reigns. It takes practice, but it's very possible. In a new hakwon it will be more difficult, too, because you are training the students from ground zero in a new environment that they are testing like crazy to see what they can get away with.

Finally, letting them insult you is something that I never, ever tolerate. Learn to make "Korean" noises of anger and displeasure so that your reaction is more familiar to them, too. All the same, if it is true that you have absolutely no support, you might think about getting a different job -- but be prepared with a very good reason why you couldn't handle this job, and it can't be that you had discipline problems.

I feel like this is a bit disjointed but I hope some of it helps.

Good luck!

[orangeblossom]

Thank you for your advice. Though I have been trying to lower my goals in regards to the material, maybe I need to let them go even further. It's a tricky balance though because the higher-ups and the parents want to see the books well-covered in ink so to speak, and they also want me to have a more academic focus for this group-level (but they're still kids! ).

Unfortunately leaving this job isn't really an option, but I think I'll reflect a bit more and work on some of these suggestions and hope it gets better. Thanks again.

[koreatimes]

I teach classes of 40-45 here in China and my approach is exactly the same as it was when I had a previous job teaching small 4-5 student classes.

I pick one student and teach them. When they can perform whatever task I am expecting, then I model it for the other students. Any students that follow suit get a "pass". Any students that don't are the next for me to teach. This sandwich technique brings the class together. If you ever teach more than 15, what you do is appoint the good students in between to police the others. You shouldn't need that in your current situation.

After that, if there are any bad students remaining, you take the worst one and remove them from the class. Don't say it is an option, it is always an option. For young ones, it could simply be taking them to the office, sitting them there, and explaining the problem to the school. The school wants this kid's money, they will have to do something then. For the older ones, you can scold them and try to mold them a few times before actually kicking them out. I have had 100% success rate in my larger classes. Once you get the class seeing your actions and understanding cause and effect, you can punish more easily.

These students rightfully don't understand good behavior. They are not always acting out. Before you tell them good and bad, you have to bring them together. The sandwich technique is one way that has worked for me. I even had 2 brothers, one was basically an idiot savant, however he kept trying and trying after he saw his brother succeed. Without his brother, he would just stare at the wall or play video games.

[bbunce]

Sounds like you are doing everything right so don't get discouraged. I like the suggestion of kicking the bad student(s) out of the class/refusing to allow them back in YOUR classroom until the parents are notified. Tell your boss you simply won't teach the really bad students anymore unless something changes.

This is what I do when students are acting out...Initially, I'll do the "sit down" "put your cellphones away" and threaten them with "do you want me to move you?" Then I do nothing....I just continue with the lesson unless I notice other students are upset or unable to concentrate...Doing nothing works about 75% of the time.

The other 25% I go ballistic and do my best to make the students who are acting out feel some shame...Tell them they are stupid in Korean like "babo"...and make the korean noises...I know it sounds inappropriate but try it...If you are lucky, they won't come back!

Just hang in there and don't give up on yourself or the kids...Don't take it personally either which is something I am afraid you are doing...Try to make the lessons more interesting too...I have my kids drawing or coloring, doing word searches, practicing handwriting, and then have games planned out as an award...You can also try bribing them with candy which I've seen done with success. I don't do it because I am cheap.

Please keep us updated and let us know if any the suggestions work...I am having problems in one class that is driving me crazy too...

[edwardcatflap]

[quote]Just hang in there and don't give up on yourself or the kids don't take it personally either which is something I am afraid you are doing...Try to make the lessons more interesting too...I have my kids drawing or coloring, doing word searches, practicing handwriting, and then have games planned out as an award...You can also try bribing them with candy which I've seen done with success. I don't do it because I am cheap.[quote]

You say don't give up and then list a load of things which sound like giving up to me. I've had classes like the OP before and it's a huge challenge, which it's almost impossible to overcome completely. Either really give up and just read a paper in the corner or try to gain ground little by little. Go into each lesson with a clear plan designed for a responsive, well behaved class, and work through it as best you can. If you think it's a good plan, and you're well organised, your enthusiasm should rub off a little on the kids. Even if you just take a few kids with you, that's a success. The next class, try to get a few more kids on board and so on. It's a major stress but as long as you teach other classes where you can see you're making headway you can gain some strength to deal with the bad ones.

[akcrono]

Always get some strange pieces of advice when questions like this are asked.

First, I am a psych major, with 2 parents who are teachers. My classes are completely under control and my students love me. I know what I'm talking about.

Discipline needs to be quick and consistent. If you are not both, it will not be effective. Make a clear punishment for each infraction, and do it quickly, every time.

Do the best you can to develop good rapport with your Korean teachers; they can be of tremendous help, both in talking to kids and calling teachers.

If the admins won't do anything, I agree with sending the worst student out. It might not punish the student, but it will punish the school and make the class more manageable. A school that doesn't have a disciplinary procedure in place is a failure at its most basic level.

Never doubt your ability to punish. My worst classes had to stop what they were doing and do listen and repeat over and over for a set amount of time if they acted up. No matter how miserable they think they are, you can always make it worse.

Also don't forget to reward for a good job. That listen and repeat time can be used for games, videos, or even cell phone time if they all behave the whole time.

Don't let them insult you. Some kids can handle joking around, these clearly can't. Don't tolerate any disrespect, or they will continue to disrespect you in other ways.

Last, don't try to save every kid. Figure out a reasonable minimum and hold them to that. If you ask too much, they won't even give you 50%. The kids you have are all unmotivated, poor students who have passed by other adults with a lot more influence than you will ever have. You will probably not save a single kid the entire time you're here, so go for bare minimum, and hold them to it. That's probably the most you'll ever get out of them, and probably their best chance of improving.

If you do this, they WILL push back, and it WILL get harder before it gets easier. You taught them that you aren't consistent, and they will hold you to that. Prove them wrong, and things will get better.

[Squire]

I'd love to offer advice here but the truth is my worst class (a middle school grade 1) were tough to deal with but I could always rely on dragging a couple of the boys off to see the KET after the class and have him deal with them. Maybe you don't have that option

Often at the end of classes I'd keep a small group of the worst behaved back and have them stand at the front of the class with their arms in the air for twenty minutes while I trolled on some forum or other. If they so much as looked at each other I'd get up right in their face and shout at them as if I'm about to crack them. My dad did this with me and my brother when we were kids, and it worked. It was a revelation to me years later to discover that he'd often been acting all of those times. My sister is ten years younger than me and very often she'd get the same treatment, then when he'd send her up to her room he'd turn and laugh at whatever cheeky remark she'd came out with. The look of rage and hatred was all an illusion!

Strangely some of the boys I'd shout at the most actually liked and respected me a lot more than the kids at other schools I didn't have to discipline. Bizarre. I have no idea why that's the case