Korean Job Discussion Forums

[PeterDragon]

A.............

[ThePoet]

You'd probably be better off going through the University of South Africa. It's accredited, reputable, and a doctorate takes 2 years (they give you one year to submit a successful proposal, and another year to write the dissertation.

www.unisa.ac.za

[PeterDragon]

............

[ren546]

Don't do a crappy PhD. It's not worth the time and effort. Programs are ranked in the US and Canada within each specialty, and exclusively "online" programs are essentially off ALL of the lists. For a reason. Part of doing a PhD requires extensive interaction with faculty in your field - SUCCESSFUL faculty in your field - who you won't have access to in online programs.

If you want a good uni job here, be aware that members of the selection committees at top universities often did their PhDs in schools outside of Korea (mostly the US). They will know a crappy university when they see one.

An alternative: go back to the US for three years, finish up the coursework and preliminary exams for your PhD (preferably with funding), and then move to Korea while you're working on your dissertation. That's what I'm doing right now, and it's worked out fairly well on the job market.

[ThePoet]

First of all, to Ren - because of my "online" masters and on the strength of my "online" certificate of advanced graduate studies, I have secured three jobs over the past 5 years in north America in my field of study at some very well paying positions (my full time job is scaled between 69K - 91K per year depending on experience and education). So I would not classify all online studies as being a waste of time. Even at the doctoral level, the degree is what you make of it. There are many opportunities to network academically at conferences and through publishing. Anyone who goes through the time and effort to work on the research and comprehensive writing skills required of an accredited Ph.D. whether online or not, will find positions available. I've even been headhunted to teach sessional work until I've had to refuse some now.

To Peterdragon - I agree...rather convoluted, and I had to make several inquiries and send in redundent paperwork...However, once approved and in the system, it's all been pretty straightforward. My promoter (similar to an advisor in North America) is amazing at keeping in touch and letting me know what I need to have. But I must tell you at the Ph.D. level here...you ARE on your own for the most part. You need to know what you want to research, how you wish to present it, and do all the work in preparing your research processes. If I had not done the majority of my course work for my CAGS at the doctoral level, I would be ill prepared to work on the dissertation I am doing now.

My suggestion is that you look through the website to find the department you want and then find the department head or dean and write them directly. That may expidite your questions. The page you want is: http://www.unisa.ac.za/default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=13

Also, if you are interested you'll find that if you go through the online registration process, and then pay the application fee (about $17.00 CAD) then things get rolling right away as well. It's pretty inexpensive to get answers quickly.

Take care,

ThePoet

[zappadelta]

Promoter? That would be a deal breaker for me

[Hotpants]

I don't have a PhD, but I did undertake an online MA.

From my online experience, and what I've gained from it, an online course can cover you in the short term for certain posts, (I think The Poet has been particularly lucky, and I'm sure it's not just the PhD alone that has gotten him where he is), but there is a limit to how far it can get you. There ARE plenty of employers (both in and out of Korea) that reject online/distance quals, (my online MA is not recognized in the UK for higher level EFL academic posts, for example, even though it was taken with a very credible UK university), and there's no telling where the online diploma route is headed in terms of immigration/hiring policies, so it's always best to invest in a good, full-time on-campus course whenever possible.

With some time since having taken my online MA, I've also forgotten quite a lot of the course material. I think that if I had been on campus, and sharing more of my ideas with peers and tutors in person, I could have retained a lot more in the longer term. Networking in on-campus courses is also critical for future aspirations, and being able to drop key academic names and saying that you've had direct contact working/studying alongside them also boosts the credentials of the course in the eyes of others, too.

Nearly five years on from my MA, I'm already looking in to taking an on-campus MA in another field to bolster my qualifications. Further down the line, I'm thinking about doing a PhD, but I've already firmly decided that I will only do a PhD that is 'full-time' on campus. Already, the on-campus courses look far more involved and intensive than the online course I took, even though I thought the reading resources my online course supplied were second-to-none. Invest smartly into your education.

[ren546]

To ThePoet: we are not talking about online Master's degrees. We're talking about an online PhD. A lot of MA programs, especially in education, are done via distance learning. PhD's, however, are not. With good reason. You can write your dissertation via distance, but you cannot earn a doctorate on the internet. If you don't understand why, you don't deserve a doctorate.

Ranking is unbelievably important in North America and the UK, and you are grossly underestimating it. If you doubt what I'm telling you, ask anyone in the US or Canada who works in a reputable department and they will confirm exactly what I am telling you.

You may find a position with an online PhD, no question, but in that case, if you beat out a candidate with an Master's or PhD from a higher ranked program, I'd question the experience and knowledge of the hiring committee.

It sucks, but it's true. Ask any academic, OUTSIDE of foreigners on an E2 in Korea looking to get a uni position, that is.

[nathanrutledge]

Not everyone wants to work in an ivy league university, and the way that education is going, online does not carry the stigma some of the posters on this board seem to have.

First, who said that US/Canadian schools are the end-all-be-all of universities? The British system of PhD work tends to be dissertation only, so who cares if you write it while sitting at a desk in a school, or if you write it on a beach on some secluded island, emailing and skyping with your advisers? Also, loads of Universities offer PhD's via distance with the requirement that the student do 1 month a year in residence. The majority that I've seen are of that nature, with very few being completely distance.

Second, if someone came to me and started name dropping, I wouldn't give a rat's tail - it's all about THEIR work. What have THEY researched, what have THEY published - who cares if they fetched coffee for Noam Chomsky (overrated anyway!) or dropped off Krashen's laundry - what have THEY contributed to the discussion? And I wouldn't care if they did it from Thailand or while wasting away in the stacks.

OP - if I were you, I'd do a bit of research. Find a nearby state university and check who they are accredited by, and then compare. If this place doesn't match up with what the state uni has, I'd be wary. Plenty of places out there to do the work - no need to waste your time with a place that doesn't match up with everyone else.

[ren546]

Nathan, the UK job market for academics is just as terrible right now as the US/Canadian one. There are people from top universities working for crap wages as adjuncts EVERYWHERE.

Yes, UK PhDs are almost exclusively research-based, but there are still hoops you have to jump through, and you can't use the internet for all of them. Most advisers still don't Skype, though, and it's hard to get wireless on a beach.

You may think it's "name dropping" to say that you went to a top school, but for students who worked their ass off to get there, and to get through the program, it means a little more than that. PhDs are all about WHO you work with and who you know as much as they are about what you worked on. Unfortunately, as far as I know, you are not on the majority of selection committees at universities, so your selection criteria are irrelevant.

I don't mean to be negative or over-critical of online degrees. I'm just realistic. Don't spend a lot of money and time on something that most people won't give a crap about. Do it properly: go back for 2 or 3 years, and then write the dissertation from a distance.

[nathanrutledge]

The market for any job is crap these days. The economy is crap. That's not the point.

The point is that around the world, universities are adapting to changing technology. When I started college, my university didn't offer any online courses. Now, a person can complete a degree online there, at a Big 10 school.

Colleges have offered correspondence classes for years. Still, if you had told me 20 years ago that people would be completing college degrees on a computer without setting foot in a school, I'd have laughed in your face. But now, you're hard pressed to find a university that does NOT offer online programs. Sure, it started with intro undergrad classes, but now we are at the point where a person can complete a MA from Harvard online.

As I said, I don't think I've seen a distance Ph.D that didn't require at least SOME on campus time. So the question is, how much on campus time is required for it to be acceptable to you? Again, many universities require NO coursework for a Ph.D if the person has completed the relevant MA coursework.

As far as name dropping goes, I'm sure we all know people who went to top tier Ivy Leagues and are dumb as a box of hammers. A guy who went to Oxford and hasn't learned a thing or published a paper isn't going to win against a guy who went to UNISA and learned what he's talking about and publishes decent papers. The real comparison to be made, however, is "how well does a online graduate of school X do compared to an on-campus graduate of school X?"

You get out of a Ph.D what you put into it. If you do a program online from an accredited school and put in the effort, you're going to be able to compete with people who went to brick and mortars and just coasted.

[ren546]

[eventually]

[PeterDragon]

@thepoet--- Interesting, I didn't know that Unisa degrees were respected in North America. My wife and I are toying with the idea of Canada as our long-term settle-down country, so I may look into Unisa. I've heard a lot of good things about it, but you wouldn't know them to see their website, that's for sure.

@hotpants--- I'm definitely glad I took my MA at a brick and mortar, because my goal for this particular degree was to learn, not just to "level up" my career.

However, for the PHD, I'm considering going simply for the easiest route to "level up," rather than a learning experience. Some of the posters may think this sounds appalling, but in my defense, I'm not interested in getting PHd to TEACH. Rather, I'm considering an advanced degree in education management. Right now I have two years of ongoing education administration experience. I've found I enjoy the management end of things, but may need a credential on top of my resume to really be able to make a career of it.

If I instead decide to get a degree in linguistics, English, etc... and try to become a tenured professor, I would be very hesitant to go the online route.

In short, I'm taking Nathan Rutledge's view (Krashen's coffee, heh)---- focusing on building good, tangible career accomplishments, but accepting that I may do so at the expense of getting the "perfect" doctorate at the "perfect" program. I enjoy work more than studies, and work pays much better than study. My resume looks good, and I could make it look even better with the flexibility an online degree would give me to pursue more work. In addition, I've been teaching online part time for some actual American universities in recent years, and an online degree might work in my favor If I decided to pursue full time work in that field.

[ren546]