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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: How to win Afghani hearts and minds |
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I'm not bashing the military here, but this is pretty deplorable:
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The U.S. Marine Corps is launching an investigation into a video that recently surfaced online showing what appears to be several Marines in uniform urinating on corpses.
The video, which started Wednesday morning making the rounds on the Web, shows four men in full Marine combat gear standing over the bodies of what appear to be dead Taliban fighters. They look around before proceeding to urinate over the corpses. One of the men can be heard saying, �Have a great day, buddy.� |
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/11/video-marines-urinating-on-dead-sparks-investigation/?intcmp=trending |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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The best way to win the hearts and minds would be to show them the outrage current service members are showing about this. I counted 4 different facebook posts this morning from four different friends of mine currently in uniform (2 Army, 1 Air force, 1 Marine) about how these idiots do not represent the military of America, how disgusting it is, and how they should be stripped of rank, court marshaled, and kicked out in disgrace.
The sad part is, things like this is what makes the news. The media never reports when a soldier throws himself between Iraqi or Afghani kids and a grenade. Or the rescue operations when they bust in a brothel to save the women (most of them teenagers) from being beaten and whored out the rest of their lives. Or the schools we built, the roads, the houses, the plumbing, piping, and infrastructure that went in over there.
It's true, a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch. But if we'd start elevating the good stories and stop sensationalizing the shock stories, it might go a long way to reshaping how people view the US military.
On that note, did anyone read how the US Navy rescued a crew of Iranian civilians sailors after their ship was taken over by pirates? It didn't have oil on it. No one wanted a reward. They just rescued those guys because they needed help. It didn't matter our governments were in a cold war with each other, they saw people who needed help, and they helped those people.
How about the veterans, who after hearing of an Iraqi run restaurant in Lowell, MA had their windows smashed in, rounded up all the vets they could get and packed the restaurant for days on end. Ordering everything on the menu, twice even. They stood outside with signs of peace and unity.
The US military gets a lot of flack on this site. They're called baby killers, murders, ignorant, thieves, thugs, and the scum of the earth. Those people are small minded and uneducated about the reality of our men and women in uniform. I'm not angry at them, instead, I pity them. I feel sorry that they have been manipulated and told to think something about a group of people they have never met. Their ignorance is just as bad as the people that lock their kids up in Mosques and teach their kids only the Quran and to hate America. They are one in the same. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
The US military gets a lot of flack on this site. They're called murderers.... |
So are you saying that the primary goal of the US army isnt to kill the enemy?
And I don't really blame those soldiers at all. They were a sniper unit (based on their guns and uniforms). They are trained to be killers. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to routinely end human lives. And yet we expect them to just shut off the killer instinct and be compassionate and level headed after killing. If someone has been shooting at me for months trying to kill me, and after I kill him I just might be angry, crazy, and cold enough to urinate on his corpse. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Why no footage of how Al Quaeda and Taliban forces treat the dead of their enemies? |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
The US military gets a lot of flack on this site. They're called murderers.... |
So are you saying that the primary goal of the US army isnt to kill the enemy?
And I don't really blame those soldiers at all. They were a sniper unit (based on their guns and uniforms). They are trained to be killers. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to routinely end human lives. And yet we expect them to just shut off the killer instinct and be compassionate and level headed after killing. If someone has been shooting at me for months trying to kill me, and after I kill him I just might be angry, crazy, and cold enough to urinate on his corpse. |
Murdering and killing are different things. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
The US military gets a lot of flack on this site. They're called murderers.... |
So are you saying that the primary goal of the US army isnt to kill the enemy?
And I don't really blame those soldiers at all. They were a sniper unit (based on their guns and uniforms). They are trained to be killers. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to routinely end human lives. And yet we expect them to just shut off the killer instinct and be compassionate and level headed after killing. If someone has been shooting at me for months trying to kill me, and after I kill him I just might be angry, crazy, and cold enough to urinate on his corpse. |
Murdering and killing are different things. |
So the 100,000 plus people in Iraq who died at the hands of the US military were all "killed" and not murdered? Even the women and children? And were each and every one of them the "bad guys?" |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| And I don't really blame those soldiers at all. They were a sniper unit (based on their guns and uniforms). They are trained to be killers. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to routinely end human lives. And yet we expect them to just shut off the killer instinct and be compassionate and level headed after killing. If someone has been shooting at me for months trying to kill me, and after I kill him I just might be angry, crazy, and cold enough to urinate on his corpse. |
Americans are perfectly happy to put men into situations where they must become beasts to survive, and then are appalled when they behave as beasts.
The deceased in the video were shot to death. But don't pretend that this isn't a slow process. A man who's belly has been opened by a 7.62x51mm NATO round will see his own innards pushed out of his body. He'll feel the striking cold as his blood flows onto the ground and his life with it. He'll despair at the fact that he'll never see his children again, and recoil at the terror of the coming blackness which enters his vision to envelop him forever.
And that's all well and good, so long as urine isn't involved.
Last edited by comm on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Its OK to kill them but don't wee on them?
Taliban do far worse to the living, never mind the dead. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
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War's ugly all around, nobody but the bigwigs benefit, even they get warped.
Such potential to create something beautiful, oh well all that poetic stuff don't stand a chance against the rush for cash and power. On the planet of the apes, the apes win. |
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darkjedidave
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai/Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The interesting thing is, I don't remember the news agencies making such a fuss when Taliban mutilate US soldiers, drag them through the streets, burn them and then hang their bodies from bridges. Peeing on them sound civil compared to that. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
The US military gets a lot of flack on this site. They're called murderers.... |
So are you saying that the primary goal of the US army isnt to kill the enemy?
And I don't really blame those soldiers at all. They were a sniper unit (based on their guns and uniforms). They are trained to be killers. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to routinely end human lives. And yet we expect them to just shut off the killer instinct and be compassionate and level headed after killing. If someone has been shooting at me for months trying to kill me, and after I kill him I just might be angry, crazy, and cold enough to urinate on his corpse. |
Murdering and killing are different things. |
So the 100,000 plus people in Iraq who died at the hands of the US military were all "killed" and not murdered? Even the women and children? And were each and every one of them the "bad guys?" |
There are unintended casualties in every war. Because some innocent might die is not enough to not have a war. Should we not have invaded Germany even though innocent women and children died in the invasion along with blood thirsty Nazis?
All war is evil, but some wars are a necessary evil. I wont defend the Iraq war, I stood against it from the start. But Afghanistan was necessary. Unless you think little girls having acid thrown in their faces for going to school was a better situation for them? |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| War's ugly all around, nobody but the bigwigs benefit, even they get warped. |
War is a racket.
| Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC (1881 - 1940) double recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor, wrote: |
I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country's most agile military force--the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from second lieutenant to Major General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I suspected I was part of a racket all the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service.
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War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
And war is the most profitable racket in the world! |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
| There are unintended casualties in every war. Because some innocent might die is not enough to not have a war. |
During the 10+ years of sanctions leading up to the Iraq war, over 500,000 CHILDREN died. Apparently you agree with Medelaine Albright who thought it was "worth it."
So now we need reasons to NOT have a war??? Lord, help us. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
| There are unintended casualties in every war. Because some innocent might die is not enough to not have a war. |
During the 10+ years of sanctions leading up to the Iraq war, over 500,000 CHILDREN died. Apparently you agree with Medelaine Albright who thought it was "worth it."
So now we need reasons to NOT have a war??? Lord, help us. |
No doubt there are many people who do indeed think the deaths of 500k children was a-okay. All they have to do is wrap it all up in the American flag, and suddenly any atrocity imaginable becomes a worthwhile sacrifice for the greater good. It's for the freedom of all mankind...
Rationally, however, war is never just except when waged in self defense by voluntary people against an aggressor or occupying force. In its history, the US has been involved in precisely two "just" wars: the War of Independence, and the Civil War (in which case the South was justified in defending itself against the aggression of the North). The Iraq War was so utterly criminal right on the face of it, it's literally on the same sort of level as the Nazis invading Poland or France. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| darkjedidave wrote: |
| The interesting thing is, I don't remember the news agencies making such a fuss when Taliban mutilate US soldiers, drag them through the streets, burn them and then hang their bodies from bridges. Peeing on them sound civil compared to that. |
They're supposed to be the bad guys. |
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