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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: Grammar question... to be (is, are) + past participle |
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When you have a sentence such as:
The following equations are to be combined to arrive at the answer.
Soldiers are to be presented with medals tomorrow.
The professors are to congratulated for their hard work.
This is a passive construction as I understand it, but when do we use this? I don't really use this, personally. I just know how to use this, but I don't know how to explain when we use such a construction. |
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grant gerstners
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The following equations are to be combined to arrive at the answer.
Soldiers are to be presented with medals tomorrow.
The professors are to be congratulated for their hard work. |
I think there is an element of expectation. You could replace with "should" and still retain the meaning.
The following equations should be combined to arrive at the answer.
Soldiers are supposed to be presented with medals tomorrow.
The professors ought to be congratulated for their hard work.
The element of expectation or "ought to" could be derived from the usual practice or experience, or from strict requirements (obligation):
The wounded are to be attended to first.
All officers are to be saluted on sight.
Last edited by grant gerstners on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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They all sound like different functions to me.
The first reads like instructions, the second like 'timetable future' as in explaining what time a future event will take place, (e.g the match starts at 3pm tomorrow) Newspapers often use this kind of form in headlines missing out the auxiliary e.g. Parliament to be opened by Queen tomorrow. The third sounds like a recommendation, or 'should' as in they should be congratulated. E.g. people who work hard are to be praised not crtiticised. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Where does one look up this construction in a grammar text?
Personally, I learned this, but I don't recall studying how it was used and when. I use it correctly. That's all I know. In some cases, I could see the construction was synonymous with should, but not other cases. |
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waseige1
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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While we use it in speech, it's biggest use is in reporting of news. What comes first in a sentence is "more important" in English. We also use it to eliminate the classical subject of a sentence.
For example.
The police arrested the congressman. versus...
The congressman was arrested.
The second sentence makes the congressman the "important" part of the sentence and eliminates the classical subject (police) as not important.
I teach the passive voice as the "who did it?" sentences. It is when the subject is unknown or not important. (See the sample sentence above, the "who did it" is not important).
We also use it when we don't know who did it.
Someone stole my wallet. versus....
My wallet was stolen.
The students love this example;
Mom, I broke the window. versus....
Mom, the window is broken. (Subject intentionally hidden).
Mom then says "Who did it?"
The kid says "I don't know". |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| waseige1 wrote: |
While we use it in speech, it's biggest use is in reporting of news. What comes first in a sentence is "more important" in English. We also use it to eliminate the classical subject of a sentence.
For example.
The police arrested the congressman. versus...
The congressman was arrested.
The second sentence makes the congressman the "important" part of the sentence and eliminates the classical subject (police) as not important.
I teach the passive voice as the "who did it?" sentences. It is when the subject is unknown or not important. (See the sample sentence above, the "who did it" is not important).
We also use it when we don't know who did it.
Someone stole my wallet. versus....
My wallet was stolen.
The students love this example;
Mom, I broke the window. versus....
Mom, the window is broken. (Subject intentionally hidden).
Mom then says "Who did it?"
The kid says "I don't know". |
I understand how to use the passive, but I am not sure about the construction I referred to in my first post. It's not the typical use of the passive. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Grammar question... to be (is, are) + past participle |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
When you have a sentence such as:
The following equations are to be combined to arrive at the answer.
Soldiers are to be presented with medals tomorrow.
The professors are to congratulated for their hard work.
This is a passive construction as I understand it, but when do we use this? I don't really use this, personally. I just know how to use this, but I don't know how to explain when we use such a construction. |
There are differences in meaning but they all carry a connotation of objectiveness. If I say you are to be congratulated, it means you objectively merit congratulation, rather than that I simply feel like congratulating you myself. A fortiori, it has a greater degree of formality than simpler expressions. There's also the implication that you should be congratulated, or even that I'm willing into existence your being congratulated. Subjunctive?
If you know how to use the active phrase, e.g. "You are to clean the rooms" (general duties or perhaps time-specific instructions), then you should know when to use the passive too, e.g. "The rooms are to be cleaned" (someone's duty or instruction, or perhaps the unspecified agent is also meant to be you!). |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: |
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The 1st sounds like instructions for an exam or school assignment,
the other 2 sound like something in the newspaper or on the TV news.
They are passive constructions for a future event.
Compare;
The soldiers were presented with medals....etc. (past)
The soldiers are presented with medals ...etc. (present)
The soldiers are to be presented with medals...etc.(future)
by the way, I think you're missing a "be" in the last sentence. |
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bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Passive should not be used in scholarly writing so I try to avoid it. Rewrite the sentences. The first one: Combine the following equations to solve the answer. |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bbunce wrote: |
| Passive should not be used in scholarly writing so I try to avoid it. Rewrite the sentences. The first one: Combine the following equations to solve the answer. |
That is ridiculously prescriptive and ignores the fact that pasive sentences are used all the time and our students should be taught when and how they are used.
OP - not sure about this construction, but the use of the infinitive e.g. are to be congratulated, suggests that it is in some sense hypothetical. |
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bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by bbunce on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| waseige1 wrote: |
While we use it in speech, it's biggest use is in reporting of news. What comes first in a sentence is "more important" in English. We also use it to eliminate the classical subject of a sentence.
For example.
The police arrested the congressman. versus...
The congressman was arrested.
The second sentence makes the congressman the "important" part of the sentence and eliminates the classical subject (police) as not important.
I teach the passive voice as the "who did it?" sentences. It is when the subject is unknown or not important. (See the sample sentence above, the "who did it" is not important).
We also use it when we don't know who did it.
Someone stole my wallet. versus....
My wallet was stolen.
The students love this example;
Mom, I broke the window. versus....
Mom, the window is broken. (Subject intentionally hidden).
Mom then says "Who did it?"
The kid says "I don't know". |
I understand how to use the passive, but I am not sure about the construction I referred to in my first post. It's not the typical use of the passive. |
You're examples combine two grammar points.
The first is be to infinitive.
The second is passive voice.
Good explaination at this link.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv103.shtml |
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