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Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage in Several States...
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage in Several States... Reply with quote

Quote:
In Arizona, where a similar measure failed in 2006, Proposition 102 passed with 56 percent of the vote. Florida voters approved that state's amendment, 62 percent to 38 percent.


California looks close but seems to have reached the same decision. Three more reasons that President-elect B. Obama should keep to the center in American politics...

CNN Reports
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mnhnhyouh



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that so many in the U.S. are against personal freedom, but for the freedom of corporations to do whatever they like?

Or as it was once so well put, making freedom so small that it only fits in the bedroom.

h
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mnhnhyouh wrote:
Why is it that so many in the U.S. are against personal freedom, but for the freedom of corporations to do whatever they like?


Mainstream Americans tend not to phrase it this way; and this preachy self-righteousness turns them off.

Meanwhile, N. Pelosi and others are urging B. Obama to govern from the middle...

Quote:
"The last two times Democrats controlled the House, Senate and the presidency, they choked on the bone of responsibility," he said. "They lurched far to the left and introduced the country to President Ronald Reagan and Speaker Newt Gingrich..."


CNN Reports
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RJjr



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They need to ban straight women from getting married so I won't be sleeping around with so many married women.
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sojourner1



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mnhnhyouh wrote:
Why is it that so many in the U.S. are against personal freedom, but for the freedom of corporations to do whatever they like?

Or as it was once so well put, making freedom so small that it only fits in the bedroom.

h


Gay, straight, black, white, or other. It's a puritan value to limit personal freedoms. More puratanical ideology in the culture than people being puritan. You might be looked down upon if looking free or having too much freedom to do as you please, but a contempary idea is, "f&ck em', feed em' fish," as the saying goes from those who cross moral puritanical lines. It might be bad image to have personal freedoms, unless wealthy, but of course no one is looking if you're in an expensive resort or hotel away from average incomes. The wealthy often make it a point to steer clear of common class to feel free and gain more personal freedom with no one staring with jealousy. Being more reserved is the Americans way of saving face.

We give corporations all the freedom, because they just take it due to exercising power with money and status to lobby the politicians to sway their way and buy their way as they please. I sure hope this gig is up for the time being as that's what is destroying America and they know it; we all know it, but havn't been able to do anything about it.

On the subject of gay marriage, I personally don't care what 2 men do in their house or if they have Holy matrimony, but I do care if they infringe on my right to not be sexually harrassed like is common with many American gay men behavior since they commonly lust for young str8 guys.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should Obama stay out of what is essentially state matters? Sure. Even if the state matters are about something that shouldn't even concern the states all that much. Sure again.

Yes, it's possible for the right to present such matters in a way that riles some of the blue-noses among us. When presented non-confrontationally, most Americans couldn't care less. Most think that 2 people should be able to make arrangements between themselves that govern their property and legal relationships and think the gov't should stay the hell out.

Should Obama govern from the middle? That is a different matter.

Of course, conservatives are spouting that at this time when their failed policies have been rejected by a significant majority of the voters. This is the little boy who says, "If you don't play by my rules, I'll take my bat home" argument.

SOME people operate out of the spurious position that the world is black and white...and the middle. However, it is perfectly possible for the winning party to govern 'from the middle' with a lean to their direction. Obama is entitled to do that. Obama is entitled to this. The majority said this in their vote on Tuesday.

It's only a judgement call on his part how far he goes in the liberal direction. He would be a fool to listen to the conservatives who have created this mess and limit his decisions to what would salve their consciences.

Is it possible for him to go to far to the left? Of course it is. Nothing in his rhetoric says he will do that deliberately though.

His biggest mistake would be to listen to the losers of Tuesday's election. He should first ask them: What concessions are you willing to make? If you say the right thing, then we can work together. If you are just going to repeat the failed mantras of the last 28 years, then excuse me, but I have other people to talk to.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage in Several State Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
President-elect B. Obama should keep to the center in American politics...

Why does no one ever say this when Republicans win?
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said it after voting for A. Gore and seeing W. Bush win in 2000. I believe C. Powell, too, hoped for this, as evinced his confirmation testimony for SecState, shows.

Your question reminds me of leftists' persisting belief in their own minority status and ongoing persecution in American politics.


Last edited by Gopher on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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NoExplode



Joined: 15 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good. Putting your pee pee in another dude's poo poo is unnatural. Hetero anal is cool tho.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
I said it after voting for A. Gore and seeing W. Bush win in 2000. I believe C. Powell, too, hoped for this, as evinced his confirmation testimony for SecState, shows.

Your question reminds me of leftists' persisting belief in their own minority status and ongoing persecution in American politics.


Everyone belongs to some sort of minority nowadays. Nothing people like more than feeling persecuted and blaming something else rather than taking responsibility Smile
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mnhnhyouh wrote:
Why is it that so many in the U.S. are against personal freedom, but for the freedom of corporations to do whatever they like?


So really tempting to go ad hominem on you right now.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE, NOT CORPORATE LAW.

Gopher wrote:
Three more reasons that President-elect B. Obama should keep to the center in American politics...


Maybe Obama should stay to the center, but the success of CA's Prop 8 is not any indicator of that.

Quote:
Every ethnic group supported marriage equality, except African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly against extending to gay people the civil rights once denied them: a staggering 69 - 31 percent African-American margin against marriage equality. That's worse than even I expected. Whites, on the other hand, clearly rejected discrimination: 55 to 45 percent. Latinos were evenly split.


Now that's an exit poll. But 69-31% of African-Americans? Even if that's a 10% margin of error (not unlikely for an exit poll), that's still 3 out of 5. Are those blacks conservatives, Gopher?

No, they're bigots, just like the other 'conservatives' who object to allowing gays to marry. But I'm not in a hurry. The bigotry will die off in 10-20 years.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very conservative, Kuros. I have long said, and I have said it here, too, that African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Latin Americans, and most of the rest of the world, socially speaking, tends to fall much more closely in line with Sarah Palin's politics than with B. Obama's. Let us not even get into the Islamic Middle East.

This will not change soon. I disagree with you. We, progressive-thinking whites in North America and Western Europe, will be the ones who increasingly die off and see ourselves replaced by them.

In the longterm, our progressive thinking and politics have accomplished this: we have enabled their socially-conservative politics to triumph on this planet.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were joking on the Daily Show, that having record numbers of African-American voters to the polls is what made the difference to banning gay marriage!

Kinda funny, and yet, probably some strong truth to that!
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage in Several State Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Gopher wrote:
President-elect B. Obama should keep to the center in American politics...

Why does no one ever say this when Republicans win?


republicans are fanatically right wing ?!?!
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Savage is going to shit.

I know my gay friends just shook their heads and used some very colourful language.
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