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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:02 am Post subject: Leon Panetta says US military doesn't needs congress to act |
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Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta (previously the CIA director) publicly states that the US military no longer needs congress to act, but that a resolution by the UN or NATO (and the authority of the president) is all that is required. Pretty shocking to hear him spell it out so openly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkDyKHYPO7g |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
War still needs Congressional approval within 60 days.
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The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and again by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for attack on Libya, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
War still needs Congressional approval within 60 days.
| Quote: |
The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and again by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for attack on Libya, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. |
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You missed my point Kuros. For a long time, the US military does not need congress approval to act. The War Powers Resolution gives the President the ability to deploy troops without approval from congress. So when visitorq said that Panetta admits to not needing Congress approval, that didn't seem surprising at all. Because they don't need approval to act. They only need approval to continue acting after 60 days (90 if you count withdrawl time)
Furthermore, after watching the video again, it seems to me that Panetta didn't understand the point that was being hammered into his brain. (which is embarrassing) The congressman was saying that only Congress or the President can deploy the US military. But Panetta was arguing that internationally, fighting as part of a team through NATA or a UN action would make their actions not illegal. He wasn't speaking about domestic policy. I think he missed the entire point.
Last edited by jrwhite82 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
War still needs Congressional approval within 60 days.
| Quote: |
The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and again by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for attack on Libya, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. |
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It's "supposed" to need it. But doesn't always (Libya, Kosovo). |
Clinton and Obama violated the law and the Constitution. The line is pretty clear. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
War still needs Congressional approval within 60 days.
| Quote: |
The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and again by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for attack on Libya, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. |
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It's "supposed" to need it. But doesn't always (Libya, Kosovo). |
Clinton and Obama violated the law and the Constitution. The line is pretty clear. |
Was it ever determined by the proper channels that what they did violated the law and constitution? I honestly don't know. I see how it could be, but I don't know that much about it.
(I also edited my previous post while you were writing yours to make mine more clear because I see that my point wasn't clear) |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| War Powers Resolution? Why so shocking? |
War still needs Congressional approval within 60 days.
| Quote: |
The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and again by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for attack on Libya, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. |
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You missed my point Kuros. For a long time, the US military does not need congress approval to act. The War Powers Resolution gives the President the ability to deploy troops without approval from congress. So when visitorq said that Panetta admits to not needing Congress approval, that didn't seem surprising at all. Because they don't need approval to act. They only need approval to continue acting after 60 days (90 if you count withdrawl time) |
You say the US military does not need Congressional approval to act. You then say the US military only needs approval to continue to act after 60 days.
Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. It is simply a matter of timing. Congress has the sole power to declare war, or as amended by the War Powers Resolution, approve or reject Presidential military action. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. It is simply a matter of timing. Congress has the sole power to declare war, or as amended by the War Powers Resolution, approve or reject Presidential military action. |
As I understand it, Panetta is basically saying that any war with so-called "international backing" would be considered a matter of urgent national defense (ie. giving the president authority to declare any war, even a preemptive invasion of a country that poses no direct threat). More disturbing, it says that the president essentially gets his authority from the UN (which Obama already said when he stated that the UN resolution "legitimated" action in Libya without congressional approval).
I guess that means congress will just start playing a ceremonial role from now on... Sort of like how the Roman senate continued in name only for hundreds of years after the end of the republic as a bunch of fat old aristocrats with no real authority. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
You say the US military does not need Congressional approval to act. You then say the US military only needs approval to continue to act after 60 days.
Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. |
No, Congress does not have to approve deployment within 60 days. Actions lasting less than 60 days require no congressional authorization. Congressional approval is unnecessary in such cases. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, with the possibility of 'quick assaults' anywhere in the world, 60 days seems like a lot of time in some instances. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You say the US military does not need Congressional approval to act. You then say the US military only needs approval to continue to act after 60 days.
Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. |
No, Congress does not have to approve deployment within 60 days. Actions lasting less than 60 days require no congressional authorization. Congressional approval is unnecessary in such cases. |
So you are contending that the president has unchecked power to invade or blow up any country as he sees fit, so long as it lasts less than 60 days? 
Do you also believe it when the president says sending jets in to blow up a country isn't actually a "war" (as long as they just call it some Orwellian term like a "kinetic action" instead?) |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon Pannetta is wrong. But, it is not surprising. U.S. Presidents have said this since the Korean War but it does not make it right. What I don't like is hypocritical Republicans who have said the same thing for years suddenly thinking it is wrong just because a Democrat is in the white house. But, Pannetta is wrong, 100% wrong. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You say the US military does not need Congressional approval to act. You then say the US military only needs approval to continue to act after 60 days.
Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. |
No, Congress does not have to approve deployment within 60 days. Actions lasting less than 60 days require no congressional authorization. Congressional approval is unnecessary in such cases. |
Yes, that's a good point.
Although constitutionally, I wonder if Congress could censure such a move if an investigation showed the President acted against U.S. interests. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You say the US military does not need Congressional approval to act. You then say the US military only needs approval to continue to act after 60 days.
Panetta and anyone else who says Congressional approval is unnecessary would be wrong. Congress has to approve deployment within 60 days. |
No, Congress does not have to approve deployment within 60 days. Actions lasting less than 60 days require no congressional authorization. Congressional approval is unnecessary in such cases. |
So you are contending that the president has unchecked power to invade or blow up any country as he sees fit, so long as it lasts less than 60 days?
Do you also believe it when the president says sending jets in to blow up a country isn't actually a "war" (as long as they just call it some Orwellian term like a "kinetic action" instead?) |
I don't think he was contending anything. He was just stating the process as is detailed by the War Powers Act. I don't think he is earnestly defending the idea as right or wrong, just stating what it is. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: |
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I find it more disturbing that a UN resolution is sufficient. War Powers are understandable on a limited scale, although in this digital age its inconceivable why anything would need longer than about 72 hours. I mean we managed to declare war on Japan like a day later.
As for NATO, as we're obligated by treaty and such, that's slightly less disturbing, more disturbing is that NATO is simply an obsolete dinosaur that has outlived its usefulness. |
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