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ardentis
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: After school class payment issues |
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I'm with SMOE and currently only have 18 hours during the week. I was told by my co that I needed to do a teacher's English course for 2 hours a week to bump me up to 20 hours. I was also trying to do some after school classes with my school. They initially okayed it.
Now, my VP is saying he will cancel teacher's English and then NOT pay me for after school classes -- which are conducted after normal working hours. Is this contractually okay? Or am I being screwed out of money? Is there anything I can do? Please help. I always seem to get screwed with after school classes. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| What exactly do you mean by "after normal working hours"? If the classes fall during the 08:30~16:30 working hours, although they're after the students' scheduled classes, then they're still not actually after hours. If that is the case, your contract is being adhered to by the school administration. |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:47 am Post subject: |
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If your extra classes are during normal working hours (8-4, 9-5, or whatever it is for you), and you're teaching less than 22 classes total, it's not overtime.
Any classes taught outside of normal working hours is considered overtime no matter how many regular classes you're teaching. Your school must pay you overtime for any classes taught after 4 or 5 PM (depends on what time you have to arrive at school each day) or on weekends.
If your situation meets those conditions and you're school still refuses to pay you, talk to your SMOE coordinator.
Last edited by sallymonster on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ardentis
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| What exactly do you mean by "after normal working hours"? If the classes fall during the 08:30~16:30 working hours, although they're after the students' scheduled classes, then they're still not actually after hours. If that is the case, your contract is being adhered to by the school administration. |
Unfortunately, the after school class is from 16:20 until 17:10, and my 8 hours a day are from 08:00~16:00. |
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ardentis
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| sallymonster wrote: |
In public school, any classes taught outside of normal working hours (8-4, 9-5, or thereabouts) is considered overtime no matter how many regular classes you're teaching. Your school must pay you overtime for any classes taught after 4 or 5 PM (depends on what time you have to arrive at school each day) or on weekends.
If your situation meets those conditions and you're school still refuses to pay you, talk to your SMOE coordinator. |
Yeah, I work 8~4, and the after school class is 4:20~5:10, so it definitely falls outside of those hours. I'll try to talk about it with my co tomorrow. She only just told me on Kakao Talk this evening. Hopefully I won't have to go to higher ups or anything. |
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sallymonster
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Location: Seattle area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Also, I forgot to mention, some public school contracts allow schools to give you extra vacation days in lieu of overtime pay. So check your contract for that clause. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I work 8~4, and the after school class is 4:20~5:10, so it definitely falls outside of those hours. I'll try to talk about it with my co tomorrow. |
You can't force them to give you overtime. Are they paying you the monthly salary as stated in the contract? They don't need to pay overtime, but they do need to pay the monthly salary regardless if they make you work the contracted hours. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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DISCLAIMER:
I understand the situation. What I am trying to get at is responsibility of both parties. If I were the teacher, and there were no overtime pay arrangements, I would just get my stuff and leave for the day at the expected end. No earlier, no later.
When they stop me to do any "overtime" classes, then I would turn around and ask, "So, you want to talk about overtime pay?"
Put the ball in their court, let them decide. No overtime pay, I go home now. Overtime pay, ok, I'll stay longer.
I would NEVER stay at the school and then try to collect on overtime. |
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ardentis
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
DISCLAIMER:
I understand the situation. What I am trying to get at is responsibility of both parties. If I were the teacher, and there were no overtime pay arrangements, I would just get my stuff and leave for the day at the expected end. No earlier, no later.
When they stop me to do any "overtime" classes, then I would turn around and ask, "So, you want to talk about overtime pay?"
Put the ball in their court, let them decide. No overtime pay, I go home now. Overtime pay, ok, I'll stay longer.
I would NEVER stay at the school and then try to collect on overtime. |
It hasn't been put into effect yet, thankfully. That's what I essentially plan on doing. I did find the line in my contract that says that if it's anything outside of the normal work day or working hours, then I need to be paid overtime for it, and I'll be pointing that out to all parties. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Be prepared for one of the "parties" to pull this stunt: "Well, since you're working less than the contracted teaching hours, we'll have to deduct regular salary to compensate." That is not legitimate. Don't fall for it! |
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plchron
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Be prepared for one of the "parties" to pull this stunt: "Well, since you're working less than the contracted teaching hours, we'll have to deduct regular salary to compensate." That is not legitimate. Don't fall for it! |
your response should be, "OK . No overtime pay means no native teacher." If they keep bullying you just don't show up. They know exactly what they are doing when they try to coerce you or dick you out of money. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. |
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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
DISCLAIMER:
I understand the situation. What I am trying to get at is responsibility of both parties. If I were the teacher, and there were no overtime pay arrangements, I would just get my stuff and leave for the day at the expected end. No earlier, no later.
When they stop me to do any "overtime" classes, then I would turn around and ask, "So, you want to talk about overtime pay?"
Put the ball in their court, let them decide. No overtime pay, I go home now. Overtime pay, ok, I'll stay longer.
I would NEVER stay at the school and then try to collect on overtime. |
This is BAD BAD BAD advise - if you follow this route it will end badly for you!
As someone stated they will prob just move your time table around - ie 9.10am-5.10pm + they will HATE YOU - when it comes time to ask for vacation be prepared to wait and wait and wait for your P to grant you the time off....... Meanwhile the cost of flight ect increase.......
This is just one of many small things that they can do to you that will, eventually get to you!
If I was you (assuming there was no bad blood between you and your school before this), i'd just do the class - not mention the OT pay and I am sure they will compensate you in some other way.....
IE less/no desk warming/getting hols sorted out far in advance - this leads to a much less stress for all parties!
btw - i've got my summer hols AND winter hols confirmed already + they are letting me miss time off school to go on my winter hol -
WHY? Because i don't rock the boat about minor things like the OP has stated......
+ no desk warming for the swine  |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| WHY? Because i don't rock the boat about minor things like the OP has stated...... |
It's not minor. It is their obligation from the start. I don't take kindly to core contractual obligations being tinkered with.
I have worked 4 years in Japan, 2.5 in Korea, and I am finishing up 2 years in China. I also had an incident back in America where I worked on campus and the university wouldn't pay me for 1.5 months. After I refused to continue working, they finally paid me on the condition I wouldn't come back. A bit backwards, but there is no reason to work for free and not be compensated. It's a variation of the OP's problem, but the solution is the same. No work, no pay. Work, get paid (in my case, within a reasonable amount of time). Simple, simple, simple.
Every time I held my ground, the good schools/managers wised up. I was at a public school and my co-teacher and the head English teacher agreed to change the schedule mutually. The head English teacher then went to the principal and we got permission. The next semester came, and we had a new head English teacher who did everything by the book, changing the schedule back to the way it was. My co-teacher tried to change it back to what we agreed to with the other head English teacher, but he was unsuccessful. So, I packed up my things from where we taught, went up to her room which is where the public school classes under GEPIK were taught, I did this all by the book fighting fire with fire, and she was completely confused. I ended up with my co-teacher in the office talking to the principal. My co-teacher understood my grievance but was representing the school. I told him to not think about me and just represent the school. This meant I wasn't budging. I wanted the schedule that was agreed to. The principal then decided to leave the office. We were then placed outside the office and the vice principal and head English teacher were at one side of the hallway, I was on the other, and my co-teacher relayed messages back and forth. Finally, I heard, "The vice principal doesn't want you to leave midway through a contract, so we will have the same schedule we agreed to before." This was their way of saying I won without actually admitting it. I didn't care about their rationale, I just didn't want to be taken advantage of.
On the other hand, you may get those who also stick to their guns. Your first time leaving a school will seem like you are abandoning your family. However, this is not the case. One school is only one school. A million others are around the corner. Move on. If you are unrealistic in your demands, then you won't be able to find another school.
This is my guideline I give schools, and it has backfired on me, I admit. However, I still honor it because it keeps classes within a reasonable set of available hours.
I teach only 3-4 classes in a block or shift. If the school needs me outside of these hours, I give them 1 hour to use as a break anywhere, so I could teach 1 class, take a break, then 3, teach 2 classes, take a break, then 2 more, or teach 3 classes, take break, then finish with 1 class. So, that's 1 hour in the morning I might not teach and 1 hour in the afternoon I might not teach. 10 possible hours of non-teaching with no overtime pay is quite generous in my opinion. My current school has me sometimes teach 1 class, they have 2 hours for lunch because students have to go home and back, and then I teach the afternoon. I don't complain about this because that fits the formula.
Doing a split shift schedule like the one this OP is outlining lies outside normal working hours, and they should stand their ground.
If you like the school and you admit you aren't working enough hours, then offer to check essays or put something online for the good students to access. During the holidays, I would just go in on weekends for on the call type of arrangements. I got more time off, but I was available for the few hours they needed me. In that case, that is an exception.
Figure out what you are owed and stand firm. Tell them you know they don't want to pay you more, but either they pay more or you work less. Their choice. |
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