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Seoul citizens' reaction to NK soldiers 1950
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Seoul citizens' reaction to NK soldiers 1950 Reply with quote

(View from 2:50)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ElG1l4SEHM&feature=relmfu
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt they would be celebrating a similar invasion today.
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matthews_world



Joined: 15 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the movie "Taegukki"
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you missed the part further down where they execute the women and children of the Koreans that worked for the Americans.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
I think you missed the part further down where they execute the women and children of the Koreans that worked for the Americans.


I'm sure he didn't miss it.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

catman wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I think you missed the part further down where they execute the women and children of the Koreans that worked for the Americans.


I'm sure he didn't miss it.


Nah, I didn't miss it.

That's the point- Korean citizens didn't want the US military/former Japanese collaborators in the capital city or indeed anywhere on the peninsula.

The difference between the atrocities inflicted by both sides during the war was that the ROK/US forces were far more indiscriminant about who they slaughtered, while the North targeted those with known links to the US/Jpn collaborators; if you watch closely the executions referred to were concerning those names found on an official government list which the retreating ROK/US forces left behind in Seoul.

Although it was kangaroo court style, they actually asked if there were any objection or reason why those known to have helped the US military shouldn't be executed; the ROK/US military simply executed tens upon thousands in many cases with no trial, and often did in citizens (including women and children) who had absolutely no ties to the North; in other words the familiar US approach of "terrorize normal citizens into submission" well-known to people in El Salvador, Guatemala (in both cases Samsung and the conservative ROK gov't supported the US-backed operations with financial donations), Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam...

And as the clip points out, even the CIA reported that the majority of the citizens' sympathies lay squarely with the North. A big reason was that many Koreans had helped Mao to fight off the US-backed Chiang Kai Sheik-led Nationalists in China, and more vitally had seen the suppression/tortures/executions carried out by ROK/US military forces 1945-1950.

In the 21st century ROK citizens are still imprisoned if their views don't conform to US capitalist ideology-

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/eight-south-koreans-convicted-breaching-national-security-law-2011-02-24
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chance wrote:
they actually asked if there were any objection or reason why those known to have helped the US military shouldn't be executed;


REALLY? WOW so they consciensciously made sure it was OK with the public before executing collaboraters and thier wives and children.

Dave Chance wrote:
In the 21st century ROK citizens are still imprisoned if their views don't conform to US capitalist ideology-.


That must be why South Koreans brave walking through other countries like Vietnam and China and Cambodia to get into North Korea and its better way of life.



Dave Chance wrote:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/eight-south-koreans-convicted-breaching-national-security-law-2011-02-24


When I am in the People's Paradise will I be able to reach out to this website? Oh I forgot I won't need to, the party takes care of all my needs. Power to the people!
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Dave Chance wrote:
they actually asked if there were any objection or reason why those known to have helped the US military shouldn't be executed;


REALLY? WOW so they consciensciously made sure it was OK with the public before executing collaboraters and thier wives and children.

Dave Chance wrote:
In the 21st century ROK citizens are still imprisoned if their views don't conform to US capitalist ideology-.


That must be why South Koreans brave walking through other countries like Vietnam and China and Cambodia to get into North Korea and its better way of life.



Dave Chance wrote:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/eight-south-koreans-convicted-breaching-national-security-law-2011-02-24


When I am in the People's Paradise will I be able to reach out to this website? Oh I forgot I won't need to, the party takes care of all my needs. Power to the people!


lol yup. Chance is a nut job.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chance wrote:


http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/eight-south-koreans-convicted-breaching-national-security-law-2011-02-24


I despise the North Korean regime with every bone in my body, but this kind of shit bothers me. I also don't like how pro-NK websites are blocked. Freedom of speech and all that.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget a lot of Seoulites hiked it south to Daegu and Busan, which were essentially untouched during the war. And a lot of them were North Koreans who came south in the 5 year period between the end of WWII and the Korean War. They knew how NK would treat anyone who made money.

I wonder if I were starving and had no resource to go south to Busan, would I take free food handouts from NK soldiers? Or just starve? Makes NK look superficially good, until the food supply ends.

Also, it just astounds me the number of pro-NKers on this forum.
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Also, it just astounds me the number of pro-NKers on this forum.


Welcome to the real world.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:
Don't forget a lot of Seoulites hiked it south to Daegu and Busan, which were essentially untouched during the war. And a lot of them were North Koreans who came south in the 5 year period between the end of WWII and the Korean War. They knew how NK would treat anyone who made money.

Also, it just astounds me the number of pro-NKers on this forum.


Also astounding is the general level of sheer ignorance about what really went down-

After the liberation in 1945, Daegu was a hotbed of unrest. In October 1946, the Daegu uprising took place, one of the most serious incidents of unrest after the foundation of South Korea.[14] where police attempts to control rioters on October 1 caused the death of three student demonstrators and injuries to many others, sparking a mass counter-attack killing 38 policemen.[15] [i]It was also the site of major demonstrations on February 28, 1960, prior to the fraudulent presidential election of that year.[16]

Daegu and all of North Gyeongsang saw heavy guerrilla activity in the late 1940s, as thousands of refugees arrived from the fighting in Jeolla.[17] In November 1948, a unit in Daegu joined the mutiny which had begun in Yeosu the previous month.[18]

During the Korean War, much heavy fighting occurred nearby along the Nakdong River. Daegu sat inside the Pusan Perimeter, however, and therefore remained in South Korean hands throughout the war. As in many other areas during the Korean War, political killings of dissenters were widespread. A large series of engagements were fought around the city to prevent North Korean troops from crossing the Nakdong, the Battle of Taegu.[/i]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu#Partition

..."pro-NK" not so much. More pro-full disclosure, which begins to reveal a similar pattern throughout the world in Vietnam, Iraq, Guatemala, etc. Easy to ignore when you're brought up in and surrounded by a media environment which affirms the popular spin. A little harder when you actually encounter people affected by these events-

(view from 7:27)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wQ4uayiC_s&feature=related

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20120313001174

(view from 2:32)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYT8IX14W44

http://www.kpolicy.org/documents/policy/090327dongchoonkimuncoveringhiddenhistories.html

The frantic McCarthyism in the U.S. heavily influenced South Korea's political atmosphere from 1953 onward and resulted in society's collective amnesia over the mass killings committed by ROK and U.S. troops. Politicians and major media outlets under the authoritarian regime were reluctant to cover or even mention the incidents.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why did North Korea turn out to be far worse than the South?
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trade sanctions and the constant threat of nuclear attack might have something to do with it-

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB322/index.htm

The National Security Archive obtained the documents posted today through multiple Freedom of Information (FOIA) requests to the U.S. government. They are part of a major new collection consisting of almost 1,700 documents, The United States and the Two Koreas, 1969-2000, which the Archive is publishing through ProQuest, on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the start of the Korea War on June 25th, 1950.

Key points illustrated by these documents include:

The development of a nuclear contingency plan, codenamed FREEDOM DROP that called for �pre-coordinated options for the selective use of tactical nuclear weapons against North Korea�� The available options included limited attacks on North Korean command centers, airfields, and naval bases with atomic weapons ranging from .2 to 10 kilotons, delivered by air or Honest John/Sergeant missiles, as well as at the upper end an attack with 10 to 70 kiloton weapons geared to take out North Korea�s air power and diminish the country�s overall military capability. Depending on the size of the attack, the estimated �friendly losses� would be �Less than 10 percent,� and civilian deaths would range from �approximately 100 to several thousand."


Generally those countries who don't buy into US capitalism and oblige US interests (i.e. allow them to set up sweat shop factories to produce cheap goods or sign trade agreements that allow major coporations to have their way) are marginalized in the international community, while those who play ball are placed on a pedestal, though its citizens may not be able to speak their minds or have many options beyond becoming a drone in a consumer-obsessed economic system fueled by vapid pop music and plastic surgery-enhanced models pitching goods in ads plastered around the city, which has led us to-

A new study from researchers at Jay W. Forrester's institute at MIT says that the world could suffer from "global economic collapse" and "precipitous population decline" if people continue to consume the world's resources at the current pace.

Smithsonian Magazine writes that Australian physicist Graham Turner says "the world is on track for disaster" and that current evidence coincides with a famous, and in some quarters, infamous, academic report from 1972 entitled, "The Limits to Growth."

Produced for a group called The Club of Rome, the study's researchers created a computing model to forecast different scenarios based on the current models of population growth and global resource consumption. The study also took into account different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control and environmental protection efforts. Twelve million copies of the report were produced and distributed in 37 different languages.

Most of the computer scenarios found population and economic growth continuing at a steady rate until about 2030. But without "drastic measures for environmental protection," the scenarios predict the likelihood of a population and economic crash.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/next-great-depression-mit-researchers-predict-global-economic-190352944.html?ref=type:read,user:pIfxo4gvN-8I3d6Oup6TAFP2fhc&fb_action_ids=10150717383903490&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_source=other_multiline&code=AQAk8pKde1-CiycwOt2F7Wjm5k9bvEfyH-9nAIy5Eyt8uf89cZyCbiKnAtxyD_vmyMVX4Erb0t81JeOrVQwwRqL1X2hJPx3S2tvYZ7zjHIfQHf3Sxxt2Df04OqHuYe9RVfros3QHC8sFQAPKY4FKIgjs49HxUqnAvfNuNldPH_87Q7pzy1gDH1vFjdXyeDVhpg0#_=_
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

North Korea has not bee food self-sufficient since the Soviet Union collapsed. There is no embargo. They border an economic superpower but still rely on food aid.

So what is your excuse for the approxiamtely 200,000 North Koreans in forced labor camps?
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