Korean Job Discussion Forums

[itiswhatitis]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/04/117_108515.html

This is a link to a story from the Korea Times. I wonder if it's really that bad and if any of you can share some personal experiences.

When I worked at a hagwon for 2 years teaching middle school students I saw a few incidents between students and teachers.

I feel badly for the teachers involved in the incidents that the article mentions. Having said that, I think that the serious incidents are not common (actually being assaulted) and that it can happen in many jobs.

[nathanrutledge]

I've got a few stories.

One co worker caught a middle school kid getting his cigarettes from the classroom during the school field day. The kid started yelling at her. She knew the kid - his family was getting divorced, he was under a lot of stress, so she let him vent. He was finally cooling down when the VP came in. Well, long story short, the kid spit in the VP's face, threw the cigarettes at my coworker, hitting her in the face (left a small mark) and stormed off. This was back in 2008, before all of the "students rights" issues. The school ended up talking with the boy and his father, but that was it.

October of 2010, my significant other broke up a fight at her middle school. The two boys hit her in the process (not on purpose; just as they were swinging away) and she had to get her wrist taped for about a week. The students, if I recall correctly, were not punished for the fight OR injuring a teacher.

Just my two cents - I'm all about student rights. Corporal punishment doesn't work, forcing students to study 12-18 hours a day is ludicrous, and telling a kid he can't dye his hair (either natural or unnatural colors) or grow it how he wants to serves no legitimate educational purpose. That said, when I was in high school, a police officer was placed in every high school in the district. If these kids want to assault teachers, they should be arrested and charged. In the words of a terrible comic, "with great powers comes great responsibility." If these kids want to be treated like adults, then we should treat them like adults. A kid assaults a teacher, lets do it Korean style - pay some blood money or go to jail. A kid slanders an administrator, prosecute him!

[fermentation]

[alongway]

[wylies99]

At a public school, I had a knife pulled on me by a student who didn't want to leave the classroom after the last class of the day. I was able to get out of the room and get the Korean head teacher. The kid claimed he brought the knife to school because of bullying. They made him apologize and did nothing about contacting the parents. I wonder if it had happened to a Korean teacher the reaction might have been different, but I have no way of knowing.

[nathanrutledge]

The whole thing comes back to the family. When I was a student, I caused trouble, but I was never scared of the school, my teachers, the police, etc. It was my parents that I was scared of. The school could give me detentions, suspend me, expel me, make me come on Saturdays, mark my record for future colleges and universities to see - but my parents could take my car, my things, kick me out of the house when I was older, etc.

The problem is the declining moral value of the family. I talked about this issue with my university students and the vast majority of them (freshmen, mind you, who just last year were under the yoke of the high school) say that the students rights issue is garbage. Of course, these are the good students who got into a decent university who were distracted and harassed by the bad students who caused all the trouble.

fermentation - what the OP said is true, IMO. The serious incidents are the exception to the rule. Today vs your day probably isn't much different, just the perception of it is. Me personally, I've never had a problem in the classroom that I felt was out of line. Even the student with the cigarettes - I felt most of what he did was in line with what a 14 or 15 yr old boy in his position naturally would have done.

Charge them as adults, charge them as youth, I don't care. Part of the problem is that students don't see any consequences. They don't have to say "sorry, I was drunk;" they get a total pass. It's that message that the troublemakers are receiving - they don't have anything to fear.

I think a police officer in the school is a good thing. They are NOT there solely as an enforcer. They are there as a counselor, as a friend, as a helpful hand. I went to an inner-city school (as inner-city as any we had in my city, i guess) and the police officer we had was black. Considering the number of black students, and the racial tensions in my city, that police officer was a role model to a lot of students. He was also a human - he put a real face on the otherwise hated job of "pig." A lot of these issues are not present in Korea, but a student gets beaten at home, people are picking on them, they don't know what to do; a police officer who the student sees every day could be very useful.

Alongway - you are right. corporal punishment is not just beating. That said, I stand by what I said with a little caveat. Beating students doesn't work. Corporal punishment doesn't work with older students. You tell a kid to hold a book over his head and he says "no," what can you do? As I said, I think the changing atmosphere has nothing to do with corporal punishment and more of a slide in the values of society.

[Squire]

Students in school shouldn't have the same rights as they do out of school, or as adults have in a workplace. Imagine giving military personnel liberal rights to act as they see fit? It wouldn't work.

'Fire in the hole!'
'No, I don't want to'
'Fine, fall back!'

[Julius]

[Joe Boxer]

You know what kept me in line as an elementary school student?
Fear of "The Strap".

[fermentation]

[Mix1]