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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: Social life here... |
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Lately I have been feeling really uncomfortable in the "waygookin scene". If I am out somewhere where there are a lot of other foreigners, I just feel so strange and uncomfortable. I am really into the idea of cultural integration like how everyone in New York is considered a New Yorker no matter where they are from. I don't like Koreans looking at me as "just another foreigner". I'm uncomfortable being a stereotype. It's hard to explain the feeling. I feel awkward in these situations.
I just feel like the expat scene here and everywhere else is so cheesy and superficial.
I'm finding it hard to make real friends and felt the same the last time I was here. My friends from home are people who inspire me to become a better person. People who invigorate my intellect and inspire me to achieve higher. A lot of people I meet here just seem so empty. I find it hard to have a conversation about anything interesting.
Does anyone else feel this way?
I take Korean classes and study every day but my Korean isn't good enough to socialize with Koreans yet if they don't speak English. If my Korean was better, I don't think this would be as much of a problem. I know a Korean guy I met while traveling who I think is really cool and I've been trying to build a friendship with him, but he is a really flaky person so that hasn't been too successful.
I find that the social experiences I enjoy the most are the dinners I have with other people from my Korean class, who are not all from english speaking countries or English teachers.
I'd like to meet more people like this, but it's more difficult than meeting other English teachers/native English speakers.
Comments? Advice?
Feeling kind of down about this, I guess. I need some exterior intellectual stimulation. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Social life here... |
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| thebektionary wrote: |
Lately I have been feeling really uncomfortable in the "waygookin scene". If I am out somewhere where there are a lot of other foreigners, I just feel so strange and uncomfortable. I am really into the idea of cultural integration like how everyone in New York is considered a New Yorker no matter where they are from. I don't like Koreans looking at me as "just another foreigner". I'm uncomfortable being a stereotype. It's hard to explain the feeling. I feel awkward in these situations.
I just feel like the expat scene here and everywhere else is so cheesy and superficial.
I'm finding it hard to make real friends and felt the same the last time I was here. My friends from home are people who inspire me to become a better person. People who invigorate my intellect and inspire me to achieve higher. A lot of people I meet here just seem so empty. I find it hard to have a conversation about anything interesting.
Does anyone else feel this way?
I take Korean classes and study every day but my Korean isn't good enough to socialize with Koreans yet if they don't speak English. If my Korean was better, I don't think this would be as much of a problem. I know a Korean guy I met while traveling who I think is really cool and I've been trying to build a friendship with him, but he is a really flaky person so that hasn't been too successful.
I find that the social experiences I enjoy the most are the dinners I have with other people from my Korean class, who are not all from english speaking countries or English teachers.
I'd like to meet more people like this, but it's more difficult than meeting other English teachers/native English speakers.
Comments? Advice?
Feeling kind of down about this, I guess. I need some exterior intellectual stimulation. |
1. (Regarding the bolded) No they aren't. They're considered transplants. They're accepted, but not true New Yorkers.
2. Buck up. You'll find some good friends. Not everyone is the same. Keep on trying. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Is there some activity that you enjoy doing? Running, rock climbing, biking, attending church ... whatever. If so, find a Korean group that you can join doing an activity that you enjoy. My experience is that they will welcome you and you will find friends there. |
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kardisa
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Is there some activity that you enjoy doing? Running, rock climbing, biking, attending church ... whatever. If so, find a Korean group that you can join doing an activity that you enjoy. My experience is that they will welcome you and you will find friends there. |
This. I've always had a hard time making friends as my personality is a bit odd (introverted and a computer geek, but loves sports/outdoor stuff). I definitely don't fit in well with the "normal" expat scene of big group get togethers and lots of drinking. The good thing about activity clubs is that you know that you'll at least have an interest in that activity in common with other members. Everything on top of that is gravy. I've met my best friends in Korea this way - foreign and Korean. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| It sounds like your main motivation for making friends here is to avoid being a cultural stereotype and stand out from the crowd a bit. Maybe so you'll be able to feel a little superior? Fine if that's what drives you but you're more likely to make real friends by taking people as they are. Not judging them from where they come from or what cultural stereotype they seem to fit. |
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dongjak
Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I never really understood why people choose to make friends based on demographics rather than simply getting on with the person. |
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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| It sounds like your main motivation for making friends here is to avoid being a cultural stereotype and stand out from the crowd a bit. Maybe so you'll be able to feel a little superior? Fine if that's what drives you but you're more likely to make real friends by taking people as they are. Not judging them from where they come from or what cultural stereotype they seem to fit. |
Listen to what you just said. Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? Who makes friends for the main motivation of standing out and avoiding being a cultural stereotype? I'm simply saying that I don't feel like I'm effectively making friends I enjoy being with through the bar scenes. The problem is that this goes the opposite way. I feel like a lot of people I have met here have judged ME without getting to know me. I feel like people here in particular are just really judgmental. I'm a pleasant person to get along with and I never really say anything negative in social situations.
NYC gal - that's what I meant. Foreigners in New York are way more a part of society than say foreigners in London are. The foreign communities there are separated from the British whereas in New York they are mostly integrated and not seen as that much different in comparison. I feel like you are always trying to prove your New Yorkerness to me.
Last edited by thebektionary on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Everyone else - thanks for the useful and constructive advice. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Listen to what you just said. Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? Who makes friends for the main motivation of standing out and avoiding being a cultural stereotype? |
Loads of people. It sounds like you haven't lived abroad much. Haven't you heard people say things like 'Oh I don't really have any Western friends here, I mostly hang out with Koreans.' I hear it all the time. In fact there are so many people around who go out of their way to cultivate foreign friends to set themselves apart from the 'cheesy and superficial' expat scene, they end up being a cultural stereotype themselves and don't really stand out at all. |
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1927
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Lately I have been feeling really uncomfortable in the "waygookin scene" |
Hey OP, just to be clear, are you referring to the ESL community specifically or expats in general? They are 2 very different scenes in my experience.
I went through a similar process myself a few years back when I was not linguistically capable to socialise comfortably with locals, but also had nothing really in common with a lot of other ESLers in the area except for language and a similar occupation. The stereotype of hard drinking/ partying/ 1st year graduate barroom politics/ whine, whine, whine about how my co-T is a bitch/ etc was certainly alive in that particular community. Each to their own, but not my scene.
Ultimately, I decided to look for people who were doing things related to my personal interests. It took some time, but over a period one thing led to another. People I met would introduce me to other people with similar interests. I have been fortunate to have met people from all over the world who have come to Korea for very different reasons as well as Koreans themselves, of course. Like you, I found this wonderfully refreshing, challenging, and inspiring. Many of those I met have become close personal friends who inspire me to be a better person (including other ESLers  ) On top of that, I have also been lucky to have involved myself in a diverse range of occupations and projects completely unrelated to ESL. This is what has kept me in Korea much longer than I had initally expected - I kept finding interesting opportunities which made me think 'maybe just one more year'.
| Quote: |
| I don't like Koreans looking at me as "just another foreigner". I'm uncomfortable being a stereotype. It's hard to explain the feeling. I feel awkward in these situations. |
I know exactly what you mean because at the time I felt exactly the same way. However, my advice from my own personal experiences is that in Korea you will ALWAYS be considered a 'foreigner'. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can begin to feel comfortable with it. Study the language, learn the local norms and these will definitely open more doors for you, but at the same time accept who you are and be true to yourself.
PS: Please don't misunderstand my intentions here. I don't mean to denigrate the entire ESL community with this post. I am one of you. Peace!  |
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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Listen to what you just said. Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? Who makes friends for the main motivation of standing out and avoiding being a cultural stereotype? |
Loads of people. It sounds like you haven't lived abroad much. Haven't you heard people say things like 'Oh I don't really have any Western friends here, I mostly hang out with Koreans.' I hear it all the time. In fact there are so many people around who go out of their way to cultivate foreign friends to set themselves apart from the 'cheesy and superficial' expat scene, they end up being a cultural stereotype themselves and don't really stand out at all. |
Okay, maybe, but those aren't my intentions. I just am sick of meeting people I have superficial relationships with based on the fact that the only thing we have in common is that we share the same language and occupation. For some people, like my boyfriend, it is totally okay to just drink with these people and let that be that. But I'm not like that and I can't enjoy superficial relationships only joined together by booze (though there is nothing wrong with that... like I said my boyfriend is perfectly fine with it and I don't judge him for it.)
I don't mean ALL expats. I'm not saying that I have to exclusively hang out with Koreans. I'm okay with meeting and befriending anyone as long as I click with them. I guess that part didn't come out sounding right. |
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thebektionary
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 1927 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Lately I have been feeling really uncomfortable in the "waygookin scene" |
Hey OP, just to be clear, are you referring to the ESL community specifically or expats in general? They are 2 very different scenes in my experience.
I went through a similar process myself a few years back when I was not linguistically capable to socialise comfortably with locals, but also had nothing really in common with a lot of other ESLers in the area except for language and a similar occupation. The stereotype of hard drinking/ partying/ 1st year graduate barroom politics/ whine, whine, whine about how my co-T is a bitch/ etc was certainly alive in that particular community. Each to their own, but not my scene.
Ultimately, I decided to look for people who were doing things related to my personal interests. It took some time, but over a period one thing led to another. People I met would introduce me to other people with similar interests. I have been fortunate to have met people from all over the world who have come to Korea for very different reasons as well as Koreans themselves, of course. Like you, I found this wonderfully refreshing, challenging, and inspiring. Many of those I met have become close personal friends who inspire me to be a better person (including other ESLers ) On top of that, I have also been lucky to have involved myself in a diverse range of occupations and projects completely unrelated to ESL. This is what has kept me in Korea much longer than I had initally expected - I kept finding interesting opportunities which made me think 'maybe just one more year'.
| Quote: |
| I don't like Koreans looking at me as "just another foreigner". I'm uncomfortable being a stereotype. It's hard to explain the feeling. I feel awkward in these situations. |
I know exactly what you mean because at the time I felt exactly the same way. However, my advice from my own personal experiences is that in Korea you will ALWAYS be considered a 'foreigner'. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can begin to feel comfortable with it. Study the language, learn the local norms and these will definitely open more doors for you, but at the same time accept who you are and be true to yourself.
PS: Please don't misunderstand my intentions here. I don't mean to denigrate the entire ESL community with this post. I am one of you. Peace! |
Thanks for this post. You completely, 100% understood what I meant. I want those other doors to open up and have more social outlets rather than just drinking in Hongdae every Saturday night. In college, I was one of the founding members of an international development non-profit organization and I found it extremely fulfilling, both socially and professionally. I met a lot of amazing people through it - my friends at home are really incredible. I don't want to just think that I'll never meet people that interesting and high-achieving ever again. I know people like that are out there.
I'm just wondering - what kinds of things did you start doing?
Edit: I have found meetup.com's Korea section and feel like I am in heaven. I love outdoorsy things and the weather is just getting warmer from here on out. Thank you again for inspiring me to reach out to this kind of stuff. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| thebektionary wrote: |
| 1927 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Lately I have been feeling really uncomfortable in the "waygookin scene" |
Hey OP, just to be clear, are you referring to the ESL community specifically or expats in general? They are 2 very different scenes in my experience.
I went through a similar process myself a few years back when I was not linguistically capable to socialise comfortably with locals, but also had nothing really in common with a lot of other ESLers in the area except for language and a similar occupation. The stereotype of hard drinking/ partying/ 1st year graduate barroom politics/ whine, whine, whine about how my co-T is a bitch/ etc was certainly alive in that particular community. Each to their own, but not my scene.
Ultimately, I decided to look for people who were doing things related to my personal interests. It took some time, but over a period one thing led to another. People I met would introduce me to other people with similar interests. I have been fortunate to have met people from all over the world who have come to Korea for very different reasons as well as Koreans themselves, of course. Like you, I found this wonderfully refreshing, challenging, and inspiring. Many of those I met have become close personal friends who inspire me to be a better person (including other ESLers ) On top of that, I have also been lucky to have involved myself in a diverse range of occupations and projects completely unrelated to ESL. This is what has kept me in Korea much longer than I had initally expected - I kept finding interesting opportunities which made me think 'maybe just one more year'.
| Quote: |
| I don't like Koreans looking at me as "just another foreigner". I'm uncomfortable being a stereotype. It's hard to explain the feeling. I feel awkward in these situations. |
I know exactly what you mean because at the time I felt exactly the same way. However, my advice from my own personal experiences is that in Korea you will ALWAYS be considered a 'foreigner'. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can begin to feel comfortable with it. Study the language, learn the local norms and these will definitely open more doors for you, but at the same time accept who you are and be true to yourself.
PS: Please don't misunderstand my intentions here. I don't mean to denigrate the entire ESL community with this post. I am one of you. Peace! |
Thanks for this post. You completely, 100% understood what I meant. I want those other doors to open up and have more social outlets rather than just drinking in Hongdae every Saturday night. In college, I was one of the founding members of an international development non-profit organization and I found it extremely fulfilling, both socially and professionally. I met a lot of amazing people through it - my friends at home are really incredible. I don't want to just think that I'll never meet people that interesting and high-achieving ever again. I know people like that are out there.
I'm just wondering - what kinds of things did you start doing?
Edit: I have found meetup.com's Korea section and feel like I am in heaven. I love outdoorsy things and the weather is just getting warmer from here on out. Thank you again for inspiring me to reach out to this kind of stuff. |
Yeah, that's a good site. Pity you have to pay to create your own meetup group, but they need revenue I suppose. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| thebektionary wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| It sounds like your main motivation for making friends here is to avoid being a cultural stereotype and stand out from the crowd a bit. Maybe so you'll be able to feel a little superior? Fine if that's what drives you but you're more likely to make real friends by taking people as they are. Not judging them from where they come from or what cultural stereotype they seem to fit. |
Listen to what you just said. Doesn't that sound a bit ridiculous? Who makes friends for the main motivation of standing out and avoiding being a cultural stereotype? I'm simply saying that I don't feel like I'm effectively making friends I enjoy being with through the bar scenes. The problem is that this goes the opposite way. I feel like a lot of people I have met here have judged ME without getting to know me. I feel like people here in particular are just really judgmental. I'm a pleasant person to get along with and I never really say anything negative in social situations.
NYC gal - that's what I meant. Foreigners in New York are way more a part of society than say foreigners in London are. The foreign communities there are separated from the British whereas in New York they are mostly integrated and not seen as that much different in comparison. I feel like you are always trying to prove your New Yorkerness to me. |
1. You've never been to Chinatown? Curry Hill? K-town (the one in Queens) or any of the other ethic areas? The older generations there are pretty segregated.
2. Nope. Just correcting you.
Anyway, like I said, buck up and find some friends. I'm not a drinker, yet I've got a bunch who both do and don't drink. Is it that hard to order a green tea at a bar and still be able to socialize? |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| In college, I was one of the founding members of an international development non-profit organization and I found it extremely fulfilling, both socially and professionally. I met a lot of amazing people through it - my friends at home are really incredible. |
Hmm, sounds like you're awfully proud of yourself. I'll bet that comes out in conversations. People can usually tell when you think you're better than they are. Smarter, more informed, more enlightened, more worldly. When I meet people like that, I am immediately turned off.
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| I don't want to just think that I'll never meet people that interesting and high-achieving ever again. I know people like that are out there. |
You may not believe this, but a very large proportion of the people in Korea are in one of three groups: 1) People who have screwed up their lives somehow [high debt, lost job/can't find a job, bad breakup, whatever]; 2) recent graduates of mid-tier schools who don't really know what they are doing and are just drifting for a while; and 3) older people who have been drifting around for a LONG time now. Not the cream of the global crop.
Shockingly, these 3 groups are not really chockablock with ambitious, successful, 'high-achieving' types. Teaching English in Korea isn't something such people typically spend their time doing. And not-teaching English foreigners, professional expat types, aren't so common here. If you want to find those people, a couple hours over the Yellow Sea, in Shanghai, are an enormous number of them. I was frankly astonished at how many I saw when I last visited, actually.
| Quote: |
| how everyone in New York is considered a New Yorker no matter where they are from. |
NYCGirl is right about this. I lived in LIC, Queens, for over a year and I was never considered a New Yorker, nor did I consider myself one. There are huge swaths of the city with blocs of people who would never say they are New Yorkers first, or at all, and native New Yorkers wouldn't either, from what I saw [recent Jewish immigrants in Williamsburg, Russians in Brighton Beach, Koreans in Flushing, Turks and Lebanese in Astoria, West Africans in the upper Bronx, many of the Dominicans in Washington Heights]. Identities are a sticky thing. |
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