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Jimskins
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: Soon to be finishing my MA, is it worth getting a TEFL cert? |
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Hello again everyone.
I am on the final round of assignments on my MA TEFL in the UK and (assuming I manage to pass the damn thing) I will be returning to Korea in August to hopefully get a public school job.
However, my actual degree will not be awarded until around September/November so when I'm applying for jobs I won't actually have any EFL qualifications (I did a law degree). I can do a one month TEFL course (100 hours) while I'm doing my dissertation in early summer.
Questions:
1.Is it worth doing this course, will my MA immediately trump it and make it forever redundant?
2.Some of the pay levels on the public schools websites seem to say that they require an MA + a 100 hour tefl cert. Is this correct or is it an MA or a 100 hour cert? (If the former than I guess it would be worth getting the cert to be on the extra pay level).
3.If the latter is true and my MA will trump the cert, is it reasonable to apply for public school jobs in my curent position (one-year Hogwan experience, no TEFL qualifications)? -I kind of know the answer to that one but just looking for a bit of reassurance.
Cheers |
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cuckoococoon
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: MA? |
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I guess it all depends on the school. Yeah, I think your MA trumps just about everything. You won't need another cert to get a good job. Might be worth it to get a cert if you want uni jobs in the future.
I really liked TEFL International. It's a one-month course and you can do it somewhere fun.  |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Before you get your MA awarded~ if the job was anywhere other than Korea, I would say yes, you should do a TESOL.cert. course.
As for the job being in Korea- I think others will answer that for you. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sitting here teaching at a Uni in Seoul with a BA in Journalism/English -- definitely not.
If you want to pad your resume, you could do an inexpensive course like KEI-TEFL or ITTT. Koreans don't know the difference between one course or another.
Otherwise, no -- no need at all to do a TEFL course in Korea. |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, in Korea, TEFL certificates (on-site or online) aren't looked upon with a discriminating eye at all. They should in fact do this, surely.
Anywhere else an employer or university would look askance at any online "100 hour" TEFL course and question its reliability. Here in Korea any TEFL certificate will do for your resume. Now, the question is whether you're comfortable with an online TEFL rather than an on-site TEFL course, like International House TEFL, Trinity TESOL, or Cambridge ESOL. Those on-site courses are one month in length, usually eight hours a day, with classroom lectures from highly skilled professional language instructors and evaluated teaching practices which you do weekly.
Initially, I did the KEI-TEFL because I wanted to jump a rank on the public school pay scale before the next year began. Regretfully, I felt empty about it, as the online course simply raised my pay but didn't do much for me professionally in my teaching. That's because online courses are online. You pay $200 (in Korea, 200,000 KRW) for that certificate. It takes a really short time to do. I wrote my own review about KEI-TEFL, which, because it doesn't recommend you to take the course, Tob55 (KEI-TEFL administrator) responds and Bassexpander gets cross with me about it. It's gotten so ridiculous that after I went into full detail and discussion of KEI-TEFL and expressed my disagreements about its merits, I was accused of lying (i.e. BORROWING the certificate) when I gave photographs of it to Bassexpander. He asked me for photographs, then accused me of lying.
However, I've taken the full CELTA program and that online course, and so I can speak with authority on my own experiences with both. I'm the only person on here that I've seen who has taken BOTH courses.
Last edited by agoodmouse on Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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The CELTA is a prerequisite if you wish to get far in a career in teaching. As mouse said, online courses are just online and you never really get any constructive feedback with your teaching. They show you the methods but then you are left to your own devices, a sort of one step forward two steps back.
I also have done an online and intensive teaching course in the UK and they really are poor. They do introduce teaching and that's about it, no real practice or feedback on teaching ... just an introduction.
So if you want to get a certificate in teaching I would recommend the CELTA or DELTA.
Good luck.
Now I expect bassexpander and his croonies to bite the bait. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Whistleblower wrote: |
The CELTA is a prerequisite if you wish to get far in a career in teaching..
Now I expect bassexpander and his croonies to bite the bait. |
Well, it's not me you're baiting. I hope people see through the advertising in this, and see just how far some people will go to sell a 2.4 million won TEFL course.
To mouse: I don't work for KEI. They are, however, approved by SMOE (Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education), do have an on-site training program with tutors, and will get you a slight raise per month if you work at a public school. So will a 100+ hour certificate from ITTT, for example. So will a CELTA -- the exact same raise, only you'll pay a lot more for the CELTA. It's your choice.
For all we know, as much as agoodmouse goes from thread to thread attempting to sell the CELTA, we can only assume he has some vested interest in doing so. Take his "I took the KEI course" review with a grain of salt. He could have gotten his photos of the diploma from anywhere, or even the CELTA company could have paid to get the course materials and had someone go through it in order to keep up on the competition. When you're one of the most expensive courses in TEFL, and you're starting to lose students to reputable ones costing 1/5 as much, I'm sure you look for any reason to poke holes in the opposing program.
As I've stated before, not one waygook teacher at my university has a CELTA. Most uni teachers in Korea don't have one (nor do they need it). The aren't accepted in the USA, and if you'd try to get a public school job with one there, they'd laugh at you.
Newbees, as I always post to counter the above posters trying to sell their course, please read the following and save yourself some money:
I have a BA.
I didn't need a TEFL/TESOL certificate, or a CELTA for my university job.
The same goes for my public school job before this. Or my hagwon job before that.
I didn't need ANY certification.
You don't need a CELTA (or a certificate from a company like American TESOL or TEFL International) in Korea -- especially if you are going to teach kids, because the CELTA is training for adult students. Can you learn something taking one of these courses? You bet. I knock the CELTA a lot, but I like the British Council's website for Task-Based Learning activities.
The rule of thumb I tell people to follow goes something like this:
If you are....
... in Korea for just a year or two, and have no plans to teach elsewhere after, don't bother with any TEFL certification.
... in Korea for 3 to 4 years, plan to move on and teach in another country, or stay working a public school job, get a low-cost, approved TEFL course (many are below $400, and can be done via distance. Just make sure they are over 100 hours). If you plan to move around the world and teach in countries that respect the British system, then get a CELTA. All of these certifications (including the CELTA) are useless in the USA.
... in Korea for 5 or more years, you should get, or make plans to get, some kind of teaching certification or an MA in Education/TESOL. You could get a CELTA, but if you've been teaching for more than 4 years, I'd say it's a waste of money.
Remember, the CELTA costs about US $1,500 to $2,500, depending on where you take it. The full TEFL International course is going to be similiar in price (it was last I checked). Korea is naturally much more expensive for the CELTA. One could almost say they gouge you here (when they even offer it), but maybe it's the extra cost of buildings or something -- who knows. Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of).
I added it all up, and found that I'd be out over 4 million won if I took the CELTA, counting lost work time. Even at a 100,000 won per hour raise for having it, that will take you more than a few years to recoup the costs at a public school job (assuming you are at a school that gives you a meager 100,000 to 200,000 won per month raise for having one). In Korea, a low-cost (500,000 won) online course that is greater than 100 hours will get you the same raise as a CELTA. For a list of these courses, see Dave's front page at www.eslcafe.com. ITTT TEFL is a paid advertiser, and is accepted. Also, KEI-TEFL is approved by the Seoul office of Education, and you can opt to take an on-site course from them.
By the way, CELTA now has a long-term course that you can do over several months. I'm not up to speed on what that entails, so I can't comment. I'm sure you'll pay just as much for the base costs, as if you did the full 5 week CELTA.
Remember: MANY OF THESE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY ACCREDITED BY THE COMPANIES/GROUPS THEY ARE OFFERED BY.
Would you seek medical care from a doctor who is only a doctor because he passed his own accreditation to become a doctor, and therefore certified himself? Now how about paying that doctor $1,500 to $2,500 for medical care which you don't need, and missing 5 weeks of paid work in the process?
Save your money for a course from an accredited institution -- that's my advice.
Again, I work at a university, and I didn't need a CELTA or a piece of paper from another program like TEFL International to get my job here. I didn't need to drop 2.4 million won on a CELTA. If you want the most expensive around, then 4.4 million for a TEFL from Sookmyung will get you a certification from the new incoming education boss's own school. She's gone out of her way to promote it since her nomination, and at 4.4 million won per student, I can see why.. All of those courses have their uses, but they may not prepare you for the age group you plan to teach.
You don't need one to work at a hagwon, either.
It's my personal opinion, as someone who has been teaching in Korea for over five years, that you would be better off getting an MA-TESOL from a reputable university after taking time off from school and saving some money for it. |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
[b]I have a BA.
I didn't need a TEFL/TESOL certificate, or a CELTA for my university job.
The same goes for my public school job before this. Or my hagwon job before that.
I didn't need ANY certification.
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| Quote: |
| Don't forget to factor in flight costs, housing costs, and lost work costs for up to 5 weeks. Any flight costs you'd save by taking it in Korea are squashed by the high price of taking it here (unless prices have changed that I'm not aware of). |
The CELTA is not 5 weeks and it is considered an investment by many who take it. Remember those who are serious about teaching would take the CELTA Course. It weeds out those who are suitable such as Bassexpander.
If you want to get serious about teaching and you already have an MA in TEFL or linguistics, jump the CELTA and do the DELTA. It is more suitable for those who have an MA. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Not 5 weeks? Are they down to 4.5 weeks now?
Yeah, and I'm sure most university teachers in the USA, Canada, or around the world just aren't up to snuff because they haven't taken your 2.4 million won course.
I don't need to say anything more. You're already proving yourself to be a car salesman by what you're saying. |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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-Bassexpander: You still haven't answered my question. See, I took the course, and you are wrong about me lying about it. You asked me for photographs of that online TEFL certificate and then you conveniently say I borrowed them. Please, be a bit more mature about things. Accusing me and then scurrying away in the face of evidence isn't mature.
-Jimskins: Since you're doing your dissertation during the summer, do an online certificate just for the pay raise. It won't teach you anything you don't already know, because 1) you have a MA TEFL and 2) online "100 hour" certificate programs are a dime a dozen and don't teach you much anyway. You probably don't need to take an on-site TEFL course, as you've got an MA TEFL. Congratulations on that, by the way!
I can't understand how people recommend with a straight face anyone to take an online, one-weekend teacher's course rather than an full on-site course.
For others: On-site TEFL programs (I don't care which one you do, there are numerous reputable ones worldwide) require hard work and long hours of study and teaching practice, but don't come out of the microwave in ten online days like Paypal TEFLs do.
Real investment in your practical teaching techniques can't be gotten from online "100 hour" TEFL certificates.
Immediacy of an online certificate comes with consequences, namely your sense of lacking real achievement. The things we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly, as we should. |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
Not 5 weeks? Are they down to 4.5 weeks now?
Yeah, and I'm sure most university teachers in the USA, Canada, or around the world just aren't up to snuff because they haven't taken your 2.4 million won course.
I don't need to say anything more. You're already proving yourself to be a car salesman by what you're saying. |
Not saying that. Specifically, online teaching credentials are cheap in cost, sure. Cheap in intrinsic value, too. Be honest with yourself. Living the lie that is online TEFL certification is something you mustn't be proud of nor expect others to buy into.
The continual masking, self-deception people have about buying TEFL credentials ONLINE is like watching a cascading waterfall. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| How many F'fin threads are you guys going to plug the CELTa or knock the CELTA. Why don't you guys agree to disagree. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| How many F'fin threads are you guys going to plug the CELTa or knock the CELTA. Why don't you guys agree to disagree. |
I've been getting a chuckle out of it......so I don't mind
But I do think that the CELTA is very much a rigid approach to teaching and it might suit some teachers/personality types but overall, it doesn't have the flexibility and understanding of the dynamics of learning that is necessary. That said, like any teaching - it all depends on the instructor. But I do disagree with any course that trains teachers to teach in X or Y fashion. Simply isn't good pedagogy.
Online courses are -- you get what you give. That's all. They are neutral and are only an opportunity. This goes for all types. The wonder of online learning is that it really benefits those who are motivated and self-learners. Precisely the people that will be the spark plugs in society and the ones able to adapt to the new educational paradigm that is approaching.
DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
| How many F'fin threads are you guys going to plug the CELTa or knock the CELTA. Why don't you guys agree to disagree. |
I agree to disagree with Bassexpander. He quotes that the CELTA Course is five weeks but it is a four week full time TEFL Course with 100 hours contact hours with qualified, trained and experienced teachers.
Online courses are embarrassing as well as Bassexpander's qualifications for his University. I question his prior academic experience and question whether this is suitable for teaching adult students in Korea.
Other University instructors I have met, have MA's in TEFL or Applied Linguistics and are highly experienced teachers with and without CELTAs/DELTAs etc.
I view Online Courses like a Cowboy Industry in the world. They offer a quick solution with a small cost but the quality is lacking.
Anyhow, I love the way Bassexpander has disagreements with the CELTA and yet not get information correct about it. I would recommend that he reads a bit more about it to understand the Course. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Whistleblower wrote: |
Anyhow, I love the way Bassexpander has disagreements with the CELTA and yet not get information correct about it. I would recommend that he reads a bit more about it to understand the Course. |
Oh gawd... you're the one making insane statements like, "The CELTA is a prerequisite if you wish to get far in a career in teaching."
And you think saying the CELTA is a 4.5 or 5 week course when it's 4 weeks (I believe it differs depending on where you take it, acutally) is some kind of incorrect information that really matters in the big scope of things?
Give us a break, will you?
You were the two bragging about the hours of on-site teaching offered by the CELTA... gawd, I'd think you would be thrilled at my slight error.
By the way, I'm sure my credentials are embarrassing to you and mouse... what are you? Public school teachers who still can't get hired by unis, despite your shiny CELTAs? Or are you stuck in an adult hagwon, whistle?
As for my teaching ability: You have NEVER met me. You have NEVER attended my class. That's a fact. Your personal attacks are rude, and highlight the level of your stupidity and arrogance.
I was just renewed for my 3rd year at my uni. If they felt I wasn't carrying my own weight, I'm sure I'd have been sent packing by now.
Last edited by bassexpander on Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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