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Enigma
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: Using pronouns properly for advanced adult students |
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I teach mainly adults and I've noticed that pretty much all of them have problems replacing nouns and especially phrases with the proper pronouns.
e.g. She really enjoyed her time in Australia. ---> She really enjoyed it.
Obviously that's a very simple example, but even my high-level students have problems replacing those with pronouns.
I've been looking around on the net, but haven't found anything that good yet. I'm going to keep looking, but in the meantime, have any of you found any good materials for teaching students this?
Thanks |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I teach the term "it" and other pronouns you mention by using stories as examples - use news stories, if necessary, articles, whatever.
just make sure everyone has a copy, reads the story, then go over what the pronouns are representing - especially "it" which does seem to be a stickler sometimes. have them underline the pronouns in the story, then explain what it's representing.
this should help. after they catch it, have them write their own paragraphs with pronouns. |
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Enigma
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the reply, luckylady. I'll give that a try. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I focus on "his" or "her" when there are 2 of either that are possible. If they are advanced students, you could show them a video. Detective shows would be good because that is the whole point, to hide who actually did the crime. Right now, they are airing a show called "The Killing", it's not easy to follow, but again if they are advanced they could at least pick out the main characters. Another one is a movie called "Deja Vu" starring Denzel Washington and Val Kilmer. |
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wings
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: basic, but works! |
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Using famous people and groups have your students interview each other about who they like.
EG: What do you think about Micheal Jackson? I like him.
What do you think about random K girl group? I like them.
etc. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: basic, but works! |
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| wings wrote: |
Using famous people and groups have your students interview each other about who they like.
EG: What do you think about Micheal Jackson? I like him.
What do you think about random K girl group? I like them.
etc. |
Somewhat related:
Does anyone find the (primarily UK) practice of treating a singular noun as a plural when it represents a team or group to be overly complicated, unnecessary, and ridiculous?
"England have won"?
"Parliament are a branch of government"?
"Led Zepplin are a great band"?
Why would any of these things -ever- be treated as anything but a single discrete unit? Shouldn't they be referred to as a single unit? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The Beatles was a band....hmm, doesn't sound right. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| The Beatles was a band....hmm, doesn't sound right. |
Indeed, though that's clearly because the name of the band is intended to sound plural. That's especially true when you can refer to an individual group member as "a Beatle". And I have absolutely no problem with that, or even more archaically, referencing "The Red Sox" as plural.
But using words that are clearly singular as a plural (such as country names in place of their sports teams) is, well, singularly grating. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But using words that are clearly singular as a plural (such as country names in place of their sports teams) is, well, singularly grating. |
But that is because the PLAYERS are representing that country. When they pluralize with a country, they are not referring to the country but the players. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But using words that are clearly singular as a plural (such as country names in place of their sports teams) is, well, singularly grating. |
But that is because the PLAYERS are representing that country. When they pluralize with a country, they are not referring to the country but the players. |
I'm aware of the idea behind the usage. However, if I were to ask if there is a team called "England", you'd likely say yes. How many teams are called "England"? Just the one. England IS one team. If England IS a team, why are England referenced as a plural noun?
Isn't it -much- more common for group names which are singular being treated as singular?
Congress, Parliament, the [insert country] military, corporations, schools, etc. etc. I did some poking around, and even football clubs are sometimes referenced as being singular. Really, isn't it -just- sports teams and bands that are given this "exception to the rule" treatment? And why, oh why would that be a good idea? |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Lucklady's approach but I would warm up for that with an exercise like this one:
http://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/exercises/pronouns/personal_pronouns.htm
You can also work backwards as comm alluded to above. You could substitute 'it', 'they', 'he', 'she' etc. for the full name so they can see why the repetition is annoying, and why it makes sense to have pronouns. Then have them rewrite the sentences in a more sane manner.
The pencils were on the desk. Then the pencils fell off the desk. Then a dog ate the pencils. Then the dog got sick.... |
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Enigma
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Okay thanks for all the replies, everybody. Some of those ideas should be great for my lower classes.
However, I think I should have been more clear in my OP. I'm specifically looking for help with the more advanced pronoun replacements. So to repeat the example I gave in my first post:
e.g. She really enjoyed her time in Australia. ---> She really enjoyed it.
My high level students are mostly okay with replacing names and concrete things with pronouns - it's more ideas and situations that are a problem.
Another example:
"What did you think of what John said at the meeting?"
"That/It was the stupidest thing I ever heard."
Anyways, those ideas given above will definitely be useful for my lower classes, but I'd still appreciate any other suggestions for the more advanced substitutions.
Thanks again |
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Enigma
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Okay thanks for all the replies, everybody. Some of those ideas should be great for my lower classes.
However, I think I should have been more clear in my OP. I'm specifically looking for help with the more advanced pronoun replacements. So to repeat the example I gave in my first post:
e.g. She really enjoyed her time in Australia. ---> She really enjoyed it.
My high level students are mostly okay with replacing names and concrete things with pronouns - it's more ideas and situations that are a problem.
Another example:
"What did you think of what John said at the meeting?"
"That/It was the stupidest thing I ever heard."
Anyways, those ideas given above will definitely be useful for my lower classes, but I'd still appreciate any other suggestions for the more advanced substitutions.
Thanks again |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Enigma wrote: |
Okay thanks for all the replies, everybody. Some of those ideas should be great for my lower classes.
However, I think I should have been more clear in my OP. I'm specifically looking for help with the more advanced pronoun replacements. So to repeat the example I gave in my first post:
e.g. She really enjoyed her time in Australia. ---> She really enjoyed it.
My high level students are mostly okay with replacing names and concrete things with pronouns - it's more ideas and situations that are a problem.
Another example:
"What did you think of what John said at the meeting?"
"That/It was the stupidest thing I ever heard."
Anyways, those ideas given above will definitely be useful for my lower classes, but I'd still appreciate any other suggestions for the more advanced substitutions.
Thanks again |
If you have to teach it you have to teach it, but explain that they can write a sane sentence without having to get bogged down in that. e.g.
A: "I heard she really enjoyed her time in Australia."
B: "Yeah, she did."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have to teach it:
A: "What did you think of what John said at the meeting?"
This one is tricky. You'll just have to break it down for them.
Drill 'it', 'they', 'he' etc.: ___ an apple. ____ apples.
John likes apples -> ___ likes apples.
Then move onto some abstract examples.
It's an idea. They're ideas.
-> Then build more:
It's John's idea. They're John's ideas.
-> What did you think of John's ideas?
I thought they were useless.
What did you think of John's idea?
I thought it was great!
Start small, and build your way up.
Make a point of the fact that it's just a noun in singular or plural, no matter how complex:
"It's nobody in this rooms pencil" - break it down and simplify it. It's still just a pencil we're talking about.
Focus on the fact that it's always the noun we're talking about:
John's ideas, Peter's proposal, Mary's time in..
"What did you think of what John said at the meeting?"
You need to explain that it's still a noun. Speech / monologue = "what John said at the meeting" = noun.
Complex challenge example:
What noun will be used to make the pronoun?
"Peter was angry that John's proposal - which was considered weak - was chosen ahead of his own."
John's proposal - which was considered weak. Put it to the Ss' that it's not John we're talking about here. What is the only other noun? It's 'proposal'
That's the noun - proposal (singular - 'it' = answer).
If they are highly advanced, get them to finish the sentence:
"Peter was angry that John's proposal - which was considered weak - was chosen ahead of his own. Why was it chosen? Nobody knows."
Then you get into the gray area of course. You could potentially say 'his' is the answer too.
"Peter was angry that John's proposal - which was considered weak - was chosen ahead of his own. Why was his chosen? Nobody knows."
Good luck!! |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
If they are highly advanced, get them to finish the sentence:
"Peter was angry that John's proposal - which was considered weak - was chosen ahead of his own. Why was it chosen? Nobody knows."
Then you get into the gray area of course. You could potentially say 'his' is the answer too.
"Peter was angry that John's proposal - which was considered weak - was chosen ahead of his own. Why was his chosen? Nobody knows."
Good luck!! |
hmm�this is a good example sentence to bring up another confusing pronoun arrangement
The pronouns his/hers have some confusing overlaps.
�his� � can be both possessive determiner and possessive pronoun
ie - Why was his idea chosen? (his � possessive determiner)
vs. Why was his chosen? (his � pronoun - possessive case)
As a comparison
'Why was her idea chosen?' - (her � possessive determiner)
'Why was hers chosen? (hers - possessive case)
Another confusing aspect is with the usage of �her�
�her� can be both possessive determiner and a pronoun - objective case
This is her idea. (her � possessive determiner)
Talk to her about the idea. (her � pronoun - objective case)
vs
This is his idea. (his � possessive determiner)
Talk to him about the idea. (him � pronoun - objective case)
I know this isn�t specifically what you asked about�but can be good to point out to your advanced students�just thought it was worth mentioning.
Hope it helps. |
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