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		jdog2050
 
  
  Joined: 17 Dec 2006
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Scenario: An EMP hits Korea. No More Electricity. | 
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				So, 
 
 
An EMP has not only hit South Korea, but the entire Eastern Hemisphere, possibly the world. It could've come from a directed Nuke or a massive solar flare.  No one knows.
 
 
However, that's not your problem.  You're stuck in Korea, a country the size of Indiana with 8x the population and a hostile enemy blocking Northern land migration. 
 
 
What is your survival plan?
 
 
Details:
 
You must start the scenario from where you are or were on 5pm May 14th.
 
 
You only have what is on your possession right now.
 
 
There is no attack or overt-war from North Korea.
 
 
It's an EMP like phenomenon so combustion still works, but any modern car with computer-controlled ignition does not. Any electronic device that was fully assembled at the time of the phenomenon is completely fried, even if it was off.  EMP hardened electronics work but are few and far between. | 
			 
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		Squire
 
  
  Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Location: Jeollanam-do
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject:  | 
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				A country where rotten food is eaten with every meal will probably fare better than most places
 
 
Would a strong EMP really destroy every electronic device? I'd still have my scooter I suppose | 
			 
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		jdog2050
 
  
  Joined: 17 Dec 2006
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject:  | 
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				My contribution:
 
 
Day One--
 
 
I work in an office.  So the blackout would immediately halt all work I'm able to do.  I'd wander downstairs to get a break and generally see what's going on. Finding thousands of people getting out of their cars and absolutely nothing working would be get my spidey sense tingling.  In a panic, I take out my cell-phone.  Dead.
 
 
I'd go back to my workplace and let them know that something really serious is happening.  Much worse than a typical black out. Coworkers try to evacuate the students but with no phones and no cars, there's no way to get in touch with parents.
 
 
To be horribly honest, I'd stay as long as I felt appropriate, but with every device fried, I would know that it was at *least* an EMP and that the situation at my job is hopeless.  I'd leave.
 
 
Luckily I work near Express Bus Terminal.  I would try my best to raid one of the hiking stores and the grocery store before full realization sets in with other people.
 
 
Then I would hitch it across the river to my apartment, get my hiking bag and any other absolute essentials, and go to sleep.
 
 
Day 2--
 
Hopefully I've run into a friend or two in my neighborhood and we can put together some sort of plan for getting out of the city. My choice of destination would be Incheon to steal a boat and head to a fishing village.
 
 
Day 3--
 
After securing a boat--hopefully not by force--we would head out to an island and try to live out a year or two. The sad fact is that it would take about 3 years for most unprepared people to die out.  Hopefully in that time frame the cannibalism (yep) and general barbarity would die off and small communities would start to form again.  There isn't, frankly, a point in leaving Korea alltogether as China would probably be WAYYYYYYYY the hell worse and you wouldn't have enough gas to make it anywhere else. | 
			 
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		pegasus64128
 
  
  Joined: 20 Aug 2011
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:03 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | jdog2050 wrote: | 
	 
	
	  ...
 
Day 3--
 
After securing a boat--hopefully not by force--we would head out to an island and try to live out a year or two. The sad fact is that it would take about 3 years for most unprepared people to die out.  .. | 
	 
 
 
 
Assuming you got to one of the offshore islands, there would already be some sort of martial law in place. The government or the people would already have their hands full with the mainland and you would be left to fend for yourself. With no more fuel supply and a fishing fleet dependent on crude to operate, you would have to eat whatever grows on the island. The ability to fish would be useful, and it would help if you had the gear. As an outsider, the inhabitants may not welcome you, regardless of race. Other visitors would make their way to the island. Winter would be the hard part. You might not have a way to keep warm, given that the power grid could be gone for the foreseeable future. Life would be very hard but nothing human beings haven't been through before. There would be either a) global war,  b) global government or some blend of both. You would be isolated from it. You might hear a loud concussive thud one day and strange sights in the sky. The air could become toxic. A greenhouse might be useful. You might see warships nearby from China or the US or NK. They might set up a base on your island. If there was a global war, you would be lucky to have children as the air would sterilize people. If the instruments of martial law collapsed, life might actually be better for you in many ways. You would have some form of freedom for the time being. 
 
 
Nobody knows man..
 
This movie comes to mind:
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/ | 
			 
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		Squire
 
  
  Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Location: Jeollanam-do
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject:  | 
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				What a grim scenario. Well, I suppose I'd do my best to acquire a fishing rod by some means. If I had to live independently I'd stay put because I'm not too far from the coast. There's a lot of rural coastland within walking distance. I could spend my days fishing and at the end of the day trade fish for stuff like vegetables and drinking water. Despite this area having heavy commercial fishing there are fish jumping out of the water everywhere. It could be done... maybe
 
 
I suppose I'd end up banding together with foreign friends. In fact I imagine to survive as a foreigner in Korea it would be essential. Perhaps every foreigner here would group together and form a pretty formidable band. No kids or elderly people to look after and for the most part we're all in our primes physically. I expect in an end of the world scenario the Koreans would probably end up killing the foreigners unless we stuck together | 
			 
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		PeteJB
 
 
  Joined: 06 Jul 2007
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject:  | 
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				| EMP on the magnitude you are describing would put an end to modern society as we know it. There is no 'happy ending' there. I'd write a book based on that premise but I fear I am seriously out of practice when it comes to writing. | 
			 
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		jdog2050
 
  
  Joined: 17 Dec 2006
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | pegasus64128 wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | jdog2050 wrote: | 
	 
	
	  ...
 
Day 3--
 
After securing a boat--hopefully not by force--we would head out to an island and try to live out a year or two. The sad fact is that it would take about 3 years for most unprepared people to die out.  .. | 
	 
 
 
 
Assuming you got to one of the offshore islands, there would already be some sort of martial law in place. The government or the people would already have their hands full with the mainland and you would be left to fend for yourself. With no more fuel supply and a fishing fleet dependent on crude to operate, you would have to eat whatever grows on the island. The ability to fish would be useful, and it would help if you had the gear. As an outsider, the inhabitants may not welcome you, regardless of race. Other visitors would make their way to the island. Winter would be the hard part. You might not have a way to keep warm, given that the power grid could be gone for the foreseeable future. Life would be very hard but nothing human beings haven't been through before. There would be either a) global war,  b) global government or some blend of both. You would be isolated from it. You might hear a loud concussive thud one day and strange sights in the sky. The air could become toxic. A greenhouse might be useful. You might see warships nearby from China or the US or NK. They might set up a base on your island. If there was a global war, you would be lucky to have children as the air would sterilize people. If the instruments of martial law collapsed, life might actually be better for you in many ways. You would have some form of freedom for the time being. 
 
 
Nobody knows man..
 
This movie comes to mind:
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/ | 
	 
 
 
 
Right, but remember, all current circuitry not based on vacuum tubes or emp hardened are fried.  Even if the military gets its shit together, they'll be dealing with a very-soon to be starving and angry populace. Hopefully I can use that confusion to make my way out to Incheon.
 
 
Totally hear you on the islander thing which is why I'd try to get a small group of refugee friends together. I.e, it may be more acceptable with one foreigner and a group of Koreans then vice-versa. | 
			 
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		Eedoryeong
 
 
  Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Location: Jeju
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject:  | 
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				While there are potentially awful scenarios of lawlessness, things would still grow and people know it. I don't think cannibalism would be necessary or even likely.
 
 
Much more likely would be that locally-grown foods would become the mainstay diets for those regions, and the farms that accommodate them would have to diversify quickly (instead of dedicated cashcrops). I would think powerful, hyper-protective hierarchies (fiefdoms?) would quickly evolve around farms. We might get back to castle-era wall-building too. 
 
 
After an indeterminable period of social struggle (could be brief could be long) we'd return to the Korean equivalent of fiefdoms. That would make foreign languages useless quickly, so your band of indomitable foreigners had better be hatching a plan to get on a junkboat back to the west, unless you bring skills in industries related to settling or converting land. 
 
 
Eventually the Koreans would reinvent (or haul out from the museums) old style printing presses, and machinery to make paper to distribute communiques, edicts, or bulletins. Town criers would become necessary again. 
 
 
But the zombie apocalypse? Nah. Know Korean, have a real skill, be able to wait out the social restructuring and you'd probably survive. Without all those three things together you'd better know how to sail and use the stars as a compass. | 
			 
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		jdog2050
 
  
  Joined: 17 Dec 2006
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Eedoryeong wrote: | 
	 
	
	  While there are potentially awful scenarios of lawlessness, things would still grow and people know it. I don't think cannibalism would be necessary or even likely.
 
 
Much more likely would be that locally-grown foods would become the mainstay diets for those regions, and the farms that accommodate them would have to diversify quickly (instead of dedicated cashcrops). I would think powerful, hyper-protective hierarchies (fiefdoms?) would quickly evolve around farms. We might get back to castle-era wall-building too. 
 
 
After an indeterminable period of social struggle (could be brief could be long) we'd return to the Korean equivalent of fiefdoms. That would make foreign languages useless quickly, so your band of indomitable foreigners had better be hatching a plan to get on a junkboat back to the west, unless you bring skills in industries related to settling or converting land. 
 
 
Eventually the Koreans would reinvent (or haul out from the museums) old style printing presses, and machinery to make paper to distribute communiques, edicts, or bulletins. Town criers would become necessary again. 
 
 
But the zombie apocalypse? Nah. Know Korean, have a real skill, be able to wait out the social restructuring and you'd probably survive. Without all those three things together you'd better know how to sail and use the stars as a compass. | 
	 
 
 
 
1. Sorry, completely disagree on everything becoming an agrarian 1800s farmville.  Again, let me restate the magnitude of things. This is a country of 50 million people importing a massive amount of its food. And if that's not bad enough most people work in office jobs and have no clue how to grow things. Even if you work out consistently in a gym, that's a completely different skill-set than what's required for agrarian exercise. Even the most buff gym rats will find themselves very out-of-shape.
 
 
2. If Korea had a surpluss of food that could survive one winter, then yeah maybe they could bounce back after a year or two, but I think the *shock* of the crises is really going to shut things down. Then there's the general lack of guns and weaponry to protect what you do have.  People will try to leave the cities en-masse but I don't think the "country bumpkins" will take too kindly to the "uppity Seoulites" taking their food. Thus, Seoul will be Hell for a while. If you don't think so, look at the stories of North Korea during their famines. Lots of stories of cannibalism.
 
 
3. I make beer. Gimme some surplus grain and mugwort and I can make a competent gruit  
 
 
But enough of my thoughts. I wanna hear from others. | 
			 
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		Steelrails
 
  
  Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject:  | 
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				How's this?  Not make the situation worse by trying to go all Grizzly Adams and rounding up people and planning ridiculous scenarios with "Day One" and all of that.  No looting, no rioting, no breaking into family mart and hijacking fishing boats.  Just scale and ration stuff, share together and come together as a community and cooperate with the authorities in restoring things.  
 
 
It would be bad, especially in some areas, but its not like people and governments can't get that crap sorted out.  
 
 
For goodness sakes, what's up with the theft?  It's idiot thinking like that that makes everything worse.  If you do try and steal from someone in that situation I hope in the "law of the jungle" that exists you get what's coming to you.
 
 
Lay off the paranoid sci-fi crack pipe. | 
			 
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		jdog2050
 
  
  Joined: 17 Dec 2006
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Steelrails wrote: | 
	 
	
	  How's this?  Not make the situation worse by trying to go all Grizzly Adams and rounding up people and planning ridiculous scenarios with "Day One" and all of that.  No looting, no rioting, no breaking into family mart and hijacking fishing boats.  Just scale and ration stuff, share together and come together as a community and cooperate with the authorities in restoring things.  
 
 
It would be bad, especially in some areas, but its not like people and governments can't get that crap sorted out.  
 
 
For goodness sakes, what's up with the theft?  It's idiot thinking like that that makes everything worse.  If you do try and steal from someone in that situation I hope in the "law of the jungle" that exists you get what's coming to you.
 
 
Lay off the paranoid sci-fi crack pipe. | 
	 
 
 
 
I'm not saying that things won't come back together. Not at all. Also there is actually a law, at least in the states, that during emergencies you can validly take items from stores as long as you leave and pay back an I.O.U
 
 
Sorry, but in a city of 14 million people, most of whom have zero idea of how food is made, it's going to take years for things to come back together and it's going to get incredibly violent.
 
 
It's cute that you believe in basic human goodness, but I believe that an empty stomach will over ride that. | 
			 
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		Eedoryeong
 
 
  Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Location: Jeju
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | jdog2050 wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
1. Sorry, completely disagree on everything becoming an agrarian 1800s farmville.  Again, let me restate the magnitude of things. This is a country of 50 million people importing a massive amount of its food. And if that's not bad enough most people work in office jobs and have no clue how to grow things. Even if you work out consistently in a gym, that's a completely different skill-set than what's required for agrarian exercise. Even the most buff gym rats will find themselves very out-of-shape.
 
 
2. If Korea had a surplus of food that could survive one winter, then yeah maybe they could bounce back after a year or two, but I think the *shock* of the crises is really going to shut things down. Then there's the general lack of guns and weaponry to protect what you do have.  People will try to leave the cities en-masse but I don't think the "country bumpkins" will take too kindly to the "uppity Seoulites" taking their food. Thus, Seoul will be Hell for a while. If you don't think so, look at the stories of North Korea during their famines. Lots of stories of cannibalism.
 
 
3. I make beer. Gimme some surplus grain and mugwort and I can make a competent gruit    | 
	 
 
 
 
I am enjoying talking about this scenario but agree a little bit with Steelrails. I think your point of view is too dark - perhaps appropriate for Seoul and the heart of major cities, but not for almost anywhere else. 
 
 
I got the magnitude the first time. But I think there are some necessary tweaks:
 
1) yes people are selfish and would try to get food by wrong methods - at least at first. But most people also wouldn't expend energy unnecessarily and they want to feel safe if it's possible. The idea of armed co-ops is infinitely more appealing than an October 1990 Bosnia where everyone on every city block has to fend for themselves and establish their belonging in that neighborhood. People would be highly motivated to avoid that so alliances between neighbors would almost certainly start, then communities would tally their resources and decide who they want to help and who can stay in and who would be out (of the pool of shared resources, not necessarily physically removed). In this scenario, order is a much more likely natural consequence than disorder. Remember, there's no army with a stupid dictator mussing things up and preventing progress. We're all on our own which brings me to my second point.
 
 
2) the NK example is non-transferable because if the norks had that happen their government would topple much more quickly anyway. You  finally can stab that jerk NK soldier or perceived community spy and bury him/her who's going to report it? The scenarios of the famines are enabled by a really poor administration with arms. With that impediment removed, natural community leaders would rise and not fear being shot, a sense of order that people would crave so badly would be restored quickly. In NK this is not possible only because of the government. That's it. People there have common sense too, they're just not allowed to use it.
 
 
3) People can be incredibly well-armed today if they wanted to be. Just raid the sports stores for bats and the kitchen stores for the biggest knives, and the museums and civil militia stockrooms for long weapons and you've got a standing army and the ability to protect your resources. Signing up for the civil militia would probably get you access to a lot of order really quickly as you'd get a weapon, some duties and probably a small amount of rations. 
 
 
I think the struggles you rightly warn about would happen between the unskilled looking to offer something even while they try to eat, and the skilled or resource-hoarding who would have power to continually eat and build bargaining power with those who have other things they need. And by the way, almost nobody starts working on a farm properly physically conditioned for the work. Even migrant workers during the great dust bowl migration had to adapt to the greatly differing needs of the farms they were lucky enough to find work in. | 
			 
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		deizio
 
  
  Joined: 15 Jun 2007
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Steelrails wrote: | 
	 
	
	  | How's this?  Not make the situation worse by trying to go all Grizzly Adams and rounding up people and planning ridiculous scenarios with "Day One" and all of that.  No looting, no rioting, no breaking into family mart and hijacking fishing boats.  Just scale and ration stuff, share together and come together as a community and cooperate with the authorities in restoring things. | 
	 
 
 
 
I'd rate Koreans as more likely to pull that off than most. Goodwill towards the newly superfluous relics of globalisation-that-was (us) might take a nosedive though. | 
			 
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		pegasus64128
 
  
  Joined: 20 Aug 2011
 
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | deizio wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | Steelrails wrote: | 
	 
	
	  | How's this?  Not make the situation worse by trying to go all Grizzly Adams and rounding up people and planning ridiculous scenarios with "Day One" and all of that.  No looting, no rioting, no breaking into family mart and hijacking fishing boats.  Just scale and ration stuff, share together and come together as a community and cooperate with the authorities in restoring things. | 
	 
 
 
 
I'd rate Koreans as more likely to pull that off than most. Goodwill towards the newly superfluous relics of globalisation-that-was (us) might take a nosedive though. | 
	 
 
 
 
Everyone's different. The average length of all the ancient civilizations we know of is 349.2 years. As human beings, we take ourselves too seriously, given that we aren't really a serious presence in the universe, and on past evidence, we aren't ready to be, yet. What we all need is a great evolutionary kick forward, or we will eventually die off. | 
			 
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		isitts
 
 
  Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Location: Korea
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				 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Scenario: An EMP hits Korea. No More Electricity. | 
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	  | jdog2050 wrote: | 
	 
	
	  So, 
 
 
An EMP has not only hit South Korea, but the entire Eastern Hemisphere, possibly the world. It could've come from a directed Nuke or a massive solar flare... | 
	 
 
 
 
...or because squidies were coming too close and EMP was our only defense. | 
			 
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