Korean Job Discussion Forums

[itiswhatitis]

This is a story from the Korea Times today. Even now in public schools students are figuring out what they can get away with.

I feel especially bad for the tiny female middle/high school teachers.


http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/05/117_110733.html

[soomin]

"�Teenagers are unable to form and maintain relationships based on affection. This is because it is often the case that those who commit the crimes are from underprivileged families unable to provide proper care,� Jeon said."

Yep, I worked in a really poor part of Daegu and the kids were definitely in need of some proper punishment... One student set a fire in our school with one of his books and one student flipped my podium over and screamed that he was going to murder me while jabbing a box cutter at me...

His punishment? His mom came and apologized to me in Korean and I was told that it was basically my fault because I had teased him when he fell asleep in my class... smh

[Captain Corea]

I really worry about where some of these Ed. leaders are trying to take this nation.

[Mix1]

[quote="soomin"]
Yep, I worked in a really poor part of Daegu and the kids were definitely in need of some proper punishment... One student set a fire in our school with one of his books and one student flipped my podium over and screamed that he was going to murder me while jabbing a box cutter at me...

His punishment? His mom came and apologized to me in Korean and I was told that it was basically my fault because I had teased him when he fell asleep in my class... smh[/quote]
A perfect example of the leniency.
Funny how they didn't focus on the kid's bad behavior (sleeping in class, threatening murder with a knife) but rather yours. That's pretty much where teachers are these days here.

The basic message the kids take away from it is that there's really no punishment or serious consequence, so go ahead and act however you want.

It's like they literally don't want to punish them for anything these days. The students are put on a pedestal where everything is done for them, and they feel entitled. I bet the kid didn't even have to apologize; even his mom did that for him.

[PatrickGHBusan]

[soomin]

[DIsbell]

I hate to rain on the "taking away corporal punishment turns teachers into vitcims and leads to dramatic increases in serious youth crime" parade, but if you look at the graph in the article you can see that the spike happened in 2008, which is comfortably before the recent wave of corporal punishment abolition and other student-rights actions. The 2008 level and 2010 level are quite similar. Taking away Kim Seonsaengnim's bamboo switch didn't suddenly triple the teenage crime rate. Also of note is that this article is about serious crimes (murder, arson, etc) that typically aren't happening on school grounds; there isn't any data in the article about assaults on teachers or reduced classroom control (I'm not saying it hasn't increased, but we don't appear to have any data on it).

Personally, I do think there's probably some credence to the idea that banning corporal punishment has lead to some increase in bad behavior. A resulting vacuum in classroom control and discipline techniques is likely the cause. Hopefully it can be overcome; I think a lot will come down to parenting, concretely establishing appropriate non-corporal punishment, and fighting poverty/providing support to non-traditional families. But frankly, as much as we complain about neo-confucianism, conformism, lack of creativity, and the hellish life that kids slog through here once they reach middle school... I feel it's only appropriate to support a lot of these student rights because corporal punishment, strict uniform and grooming codes, and other implements of that ilk are where the seeds are sown.

[Mix1]

[quote="soomin"][quote="Mix1"][quote="soomin"]
Yep, I worked in a really poor part of Daegu and the kids were definitely in need of some proper punishment... One student set a fire in our school with one of his books and one student flipped my podium over and screamed that he was going to murder me while jabbing a box cutter at me...

His punishment? His mom came and apologized to me in Korean and I was told that it was basically my fault because I had teased him when he fell asleep in my class... smh[/quote]

A perfect example of the leniency.
[b]Funny how they didn't focus on the kid's bad behavior[/b] (sleeping in class, threatening murder with a knife) but rather yours. That's pretty much where teachers are these days here.

The basic message the kids take away from it is that there's really no punishment or serious consequence, so go ahead and act however you want.

It's like they literally don't want to punish them for anything these days. The students are put on a pedestal where everything is done for them, and they feel entitled.[b] I bet the kid didn't even have to apologize; even his mom did that for him.[/b][/quote]

Yeah, I was pretty angry about it, but they were like "[b]It's okay when Korean teachers do this... but you're a foreigner, so, don't overreact[/b] and be kind to the students~ If they sleep in class, it's because they are very tired from school~"

... [/quote]Yeah, same old story. I've seen that. Sending the message that it's ok to mess about in the foreigners class. Then when the foreigner has the nerve to manage their own class, because they feel they deserve the same amount of respect from students, they act like the foreigner is being unreasonable somehow and refocus the problem in that context. The students' behavior becomes secondary and they get a free pass. "Please understand the students." Uh, yeah, I understand their behavior is terrible, and you're trying to tell me to grin and bear it. Who does that help?

But even the Korean teachers are very lenient as of late and that doesn't help. They even complain: "The latest generation of kids don't know any limits. We don't know what to do." Uhhh... how about TEACH them the limits? No...we couldn't do that. But another problem is the teachers hands are basically tied in many cases and the kids and parents rule the roost.

[Dodge7]

[zombiedog]

Sometimes I think that the educational "system" in Korea deserves everything it gets from disgruntled students. Education is a sickness in Korea, it's a cancer, and I think it's reaching critical mass.

[Julius]

[northway]

[pegasus64128]

Disappointing. That's all I can say. A former teacher of mine was harassed by a student almost to the point of being bullied. I really hope Korea doesn't condone that kind of behavior.

[Times30]

YEAH... I really hope the next time someone assualts me on the street, they get time off work.

That's basically the message we send to kids. Threaten other people and take a break.

The entire education system really needs to stop being soft on kids. Military trains hard and strict. And what do we get? The best of the best. We don't train soldiers with entertainment and candy. Can you imagine preparing kids for the real world by telling them that, hey if you complain you get what you want, mommy and daddy can bail you out of anything, and you don't have to do anything you don't want to.

School should mimic REAL LIFE. We are making this zone of ridiculous standards and making kids be kids. I'm sorry, but what is a kid? Dumb, immature, and full of bad decisions. Allowing kids to be kids is the exact opposite of a school's prerogative.

Time to stop being so soft. We need a change.

[madoka]

Last year at the Seoul Motor Show, I saw a 4-5 year old grab a steering wheel from a display and start running around with it screaming his head off. The guy manning the booth started chasing the kid and exasperated, looked at the child's father for help.

20 years ago, the father would have forcibly grabbed it from his kid's hands and given it back with profuse apologies. He probably would have added a smack to the back of his kid's head or buttocks for good measure.

Nowadays, the father just sheepishly grinned and shrugged his shoulders like "oh well, there's nothing I can do."