Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rchristo10]

You've probably all read the Elements of Style by E.B. White and Shrunk. But if you haven't, in it there's a part that explains that "Charles" (the Prince) is a proper noun, thus making it possessive would require more than simply adding an apostrophe (which would insinuate that we made the singular--non-proper--noun both plural and possessive), i.e. the possessive of Charles would not be Charles', but rather Charles's.

Now here's a problem that one of my co-workers asked me about and I thought you guys would know a lot better than me (as you can see from my poor writing):

First, "McDonald's" is a proper noun.*

So let's say the sentence was something like the one he showed me:

Burger King's burgers taste better than McDonald's.

Clearly, there's a comparative flaw because we need to compare burgers to burgers, not to a business--so the sentence would be grammatically wrong.

And of course we could change the sentence to:

Burger King's burgers taste better than those of McDonald's.

But, grammar also dictates that in such a case we could also put the last proper noun (descriptive, adj, or what have you) in the possessive and (if we choose) remove the object being compared if said object is understood. As in:

My hat is better than Sarah's.

Now, wouldn't that also insinuate that we could do the following as well:

Burger King's burgers taste better than McDonald's's.

Now, I know what you're thinking. And so was I, but I really don't know what to say.

I've read some places that people disagree with EOS's premises on the use of the apostrophe, but others still argue that his points remain 100%. And, I'll admit his apostrophe rule seemed to be followed to the letter for ages. But if he's still right, then wouldn't the example above qualify as a grammatically correct construction?

As you can tell, English and grammar are not my fields of expertise.
Any grammarians out there that can lend some assistance?

*I've looked it up and apparently McDonald's with an apostrophe is the official name, making it a proper noun.

[sml7285]

[rchristo10]

[some waygug-in]

I guess that's one question I'd gladly get wrong.

That's why I hate getting all tied up in knots over someone's

idea of grammar rules.


McDonald's may be a proper noun, but Ronald was a right ugly clown.

[kimchikowboy]

http://www.eng-lang.co.uk/apostrophes.htm
The Economist style guide says "Try to avoid using Lloyd's (the insurance market) as a possessive; it poses an insoluble problem". There is no way in English to make a possessive of a word that already contains an apostrophe. The same problem is posed by several other organisations' names, and if the problem can't be avoided, you must grit your teeth and treat them as if they are called Lloyd, Sainsbury, or McDonald:

McDonald's employment practices
Sainsbury's recruitment drive
Lloyd's current difficulties

[sml7285]

[rchristo10]

[rchristo10]

[rchristo10]

OK just to update you guys:


So far I've checked 7 websites & books/ manuals:

Harvard's Writing Website
Oxford's Writing Website
Cambridge's Writing Website
Chicago Manual of Style
The Little, Brown Handbook
Tips on Writing from the US Supreme Court website
Oxford Dictionary

And skimmed some articles:

"The Possessive apostrophe: The development and decline of a crooked mark" Skiar (1976)
"Do's, Don'ts, and Maybes: Legal Writing Punctuation--Part III" G Lebovits--NY State Bar Association Journal (2008).

Wow, it's amazing how much people argue over the use of apostrophes, but all pretty much seem to agree that rewording in this case is the only option. None of these so far suggest ignoring it. Honestly, not too surprised the Economist wouldn't mind ignoring--it's not like they're really set up to be sued.

Dang, I never knew English could be this hard. People have been arguing since 1976 (likely before) over a little flashy dot.

This is why I'll never teach English. I don't think I could handle it. So props to you guys!

[FMPJ]

[The Cosmic Hum]

[FMPJ]

I have no idea what your point is, sorry. The company is called "McDonald's" and that is a proper noun. Pretty clear cut.

[rchristo10]

[FMPJ]

That's almost as amazing as someone who actively professes to have no interest in grammar spending time in a thread about grammar.

[The Cosmic Hum]