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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: Public school situation advice |
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Okay, I�m looking for some advice about what I should do. I work for an after school program at a public school on an E2. The company I was contracted through had a fight with the school and they ended their relationship a couple of weeks ago. I�m still working for the school but illegally and was told to discontinue any payments into the healthcare and pension plans (though the company stopped paying three months ago�meaning serious backpay for me if I have to go job hunting again). The school told me everything would be okay with my job long term so I put down some key money and found a new apartment last week.
The director has been acting really crazy lately and has said that she doesn�t want to be confronted with any more questions� but they now tell me I�m only guaranteed a job until August, though the other day I signed a mostly blank contract that lasts until the end of the term in September. I really enjoy this job, I like the students, and I would like to stay there until February, but I went deep into the bank putting down the key money for my apartment. I�m pretty uneasy about the future.
The principal and the director are aware that I could go to the MOE and have them liquidated. They had an illegal relationship with the after school company as well. But I�m not sure if that would backlash and cause them to cancel my visa. I really don�t want to start the process over again and I'm stuck since I made an investment when I was told my job was secure, though it turned out not to be. My co-teacher would go too so we are in the same boat and she can�t negotiate for me.
What is my best course of action? If I want to stay there I obviously have to wait until they make a move. But what should I do when they try to pull the plug in a month or two? The director is very unapproachable at this point. I�m pretty sure the law and balls are in my court here. I would be thankful for any advice. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Public school situation advice |
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| HarryMorgan wrote: |
Okay, I�m looking for some advice about what I should do. I work for an after school program at a public school on an E2. The company I was contracted through had a fight with the school and they ended their relationship a couple of weeks ago. I�m still working for the school but illegally and was told to discontinue any payments into the healthcare and pension plans (though the company stopped paying three months ago�meaning serious backpay for me if I have to go job hunting again). The school told me everything would be okay with my job long term so I put down some key money and found a new apartment last week.
The director has been acting really crazy lately and has said that she doesn�t want to be confronted with any more questions� but they now tell me I�m only guaranteed a job until August, though the other day I signed a mostly blank contract that lasts until the end of the term in September. I really enjoy this job, I like the students, and I would like to stay there until February, but I went deep into the bank putting down the key money for my apartment. I�m pretty uneasy about the future.
The principal and the director are aware that I could go to the MOE and have them liquidated. They had an illegal relationship with the after school company as well. But I�m not sure if that would backlash and cause them to cancel my visa. I really don�t want to start the process over again and I'm stuck since I made an investment when I was told my job was secure, though it turned out not to be. My co-teacher would go too so we are in the same boat and she can�t negotiate for me.
What is my best course of action? If I want to stay there I obviously have to wait until they make a move. But what should I do when they try to pull the plug in a month or two? The director is very unapproachable at this point. I�m pretty sure the law and balls are in my court here. I would be thankful for any advice. |
I think the number of stupid things you're putting up with combined with the fact you claim you want to keep working under these conditions might lead people to think you're trolling here.
But as it appears you're a newer member on Dave's, perhaps you can be given the benefit of the doubt.
I've never worked for an after school program so someone else might have better advice, but I'd say get a Letter of Release (LOR) from your employer, switch to a D10 visa and look for a new job. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I�m still working for the school but illegally and was told to discontinue any payments into the healthcare and pension plans (though the company stopped paying three months ago�meaning serious backpay for me if I have to go job hunting again). |
Your backpay would be the same. Since they already started paying into it, your contract would help to show how much they owe. I am sure there is a way to cancel early and if the school can convince them of that, then I don't see there being a backpay issue.
Your main concern about working illegally is with immigration, not the pension office. You won't owe more than you originally would have.
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| The director has been acting really crazy lately and has said that she doesn�t want to be confronted with any more questions� but they now tell me I�m only guaranteed a job until August, though the other day I signed a mostly blank contract that lasts until the end of the term in September. |
What would you have done from September? Go home? Work at a new school? It seems odd to only work 2 more months unless you were going to go home. So, why don't you just do that earlier?
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| I really don�t want to start the process over again and I'm stuck since I made an investment when I was told my job was secure, though it turned out not to be. |
Now this indicates to me that you want to stay in Korea and work at another school from September. So, why don't you just do that earlier? Tell them, "Ok, give me a letter of release", find a new school, and move on.
The upshot, you don't have a job from September, you most likely won't have a job from August. You have 15 days, get a new school or leave Korea. Move on to your next thing. If you stay in Korea, make sure your pension money has been given up until you left and make sure the pension office knows about it. If you don't stay, then it could be a problem because the pension office won't give you the money until they get all the contributions and the school might just not pay the last ones.
Last edited by YTMND on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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100% not trolling. Everything I said is true. I can put up with it because I like the job and would be willing to go without benefits until February because it would really hurt me financially to find a new job. I put most of my savings into this key money when they assured me my job was secure until at least February, when I was planning to leave Korea anyway.
If I found a new job that was legal the back pay for healthcare and pension would be close to a million won and would have to be paid entirely by myself as far as I know. This only unfolded late this last week so I'm still mulling it over and trying to figure out my options. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Public school situation advice |
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| HarryMorgan wrote: |
What is my best course of action? |
LOR, find another job
| HarryMorgan wrote: |
If I want to stay there I obviously have to wait until they make a move. But what should I do when they try to pull the plug in a month or two? |
if you plan to stay why ask the previous q?
then again ask what you should do if that doesn't go well if you plan to disregard the answers that don't jive with what you want?
| HarryMorgan wrote: |
The director is very unapproachable at this point. I�m pretty sure the law and balls are in my court here. |
you're a foreigner in Korea. the law is not the only decisive factor to consider. an unapproachable director speaks volumes as to how possible it's going to be to negotiate favorable terms (not). |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| What would you have done from September? Go home? Work at a new school? It seems odd to only work 2 more months unless you were going to go home. So, why don't you just do that earlier? |
They told us they were keeping us there until February initially, the August thing and the September contract just came late last week. I wasn't planning on going home but going to a different country to work.
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| Now this indicates to me that you want to stay in Korea and work at another school from September. So, why don't you just do that earlier? Tell them, "Ok, give me a letter of release", find a new school, and move on. |
I could, and I obviously have to consider that but monetarily I'm really tied up from throwing down key money near the school which also limits my range of future employment since it's not very central. |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| an unapproachable director speaks volumes as to how possible it's going to be to negotiate favorable terms (not). |
If the jobs of the principal and director are on the line, I tend to think there's a bit more wiggle room. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I put most of my savings into this key money |
That's an apartment issue. It has nothing to do with their obligations other than they may have agreed to give you some of the rent money. Most people would seek this in lieu of them not providing housing altogether.
I feel anyone who is on an E2 and just needs a single person apartment not put up any key money. Things like this come up, and it is unfortunate, but schools have every right to terminate a contract and give notice before the contract term is up.
On a good note, the apartment is yours and you won't get kicked out due to the school's actions. This gives you a place to stay, and you might be able to change to a D10 if you need more time.
If you get a new job, then you will be in the same situation and have not just until February, but until August or September next year.
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| If I found a new job that was legal the back pay for healthcare and pension would be close to a million won and would have to be paid entirely by myself as far as I know. |
That means they never registered you with the pension office? I am not entirely clear, but does the pension office even have you on record? Do you have a balance with them?
If they have already paid into it, then they still need to continue until the pension office is convinced you finished. If you really do all of it, then you were never registered as an employee and this August/September issue doesn't relate. More reason to leave and get another school.
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| This only unfolded late this last week so I'm still mulling it over and trying to figure out my options. |
I only see one option. Get a new school, get what you can from this lemon school, and leave. Make sure the new school gives you money for rent. |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| That means they never registered you with the pension office? I am not entirely clear, but does the pension office even have you on record? Do you have a balance with them? |
I am registered. The deal with the company was that I paid healthcare and pension in full and they paid me back their half. Problem is that I had an outstanding balance from May and when the company stopped paying me and the school started paying me, I didn't pay the bill. Since I'm not on the radar anymore the director told me to stop paying it or it would conflict with me working illegally for the school.
There is a time frame here I may not have made clear. The company and the school have had problems since I got there and the school has been paying me directly for the last two months. Thanks for the other advice and information. |
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Emark
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: |
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If the A.S.program and the school have parted ways, you're contract that was with the A.S.program is pretty much toast too. That is a VERY good thing for you and I will deal with that later.
The A.S.program was the "director" of the program and took care of all the financial and administrative duties of the program and oversaw you and your capacities. Now that they are out of the picture, WHO is doing all this?
Do the math. Each student pays between 75-95,000won. You can find that out easy enough. How many students? Take that number and subtract all the expenses like your salary, benefits, housing, etc. There should be a sizeable profit. WHO is getting that? I guess it the same people that have taken over administrating the program. That would probably be the school.
BTW, do you still have your Korean co-teacher? What happened with that? His/her contract is null and void too if the A.S.program has been ousted from the school.
Fact you might not realize: the A.S.program business doesn't have the standing to sponsor your visa. That is why they are piggy-backing on the public school. I find the A.S.programs to be like a parasite on the host of the school. Perhaps your school feels the same and picked off the parasite!
Now, make close friends with all at your school. Find out what is happening to the parents money that's coming in to pay for their kids lessons. Who's administrating in the absence of the A.S.program? Talk to these people to re-establish your benefits and what not.
Now, to you. You now stand a very good chance to negotiate yourself a beautiful contract. You did the math! You see the profit! How much do you want? 2.8+housing? 3.0+? As long as you cozy up to the school admin (or whoever is now operating things) and tell them you respect what they are doing, nada, nada, nada... get my drift?
PS. Please tell us the A.S.program company name and the area of the school you are in. This will serve as fair warning for those who come across this company.
Anyway, let this thread go it's way now. Good luck to you. |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Emark wrote: |
If the A.S.program and the school have parted ways, you're contract that was with the A.S.program is pretty much toast too. That is a VERY good thing for you and I will deal with that later.
The A.S.program was the "director" of the program and took care of all the financial and administrative duties of the program and oversaw you and your capacities. Now that they are out of the picture, WHO is doing all this?
Do the math. Each student pays between 75-95,000won. You can find that out easy enough. How many students? Take that number and subtract all the expenses like your salary, benefits, housing, etc. There should be a sizeable profit. WHO is getting that? I guess it the same people that have taken over administrating the program. That would probably be the school.
BTW, do you still have your Korean co-teacher? What happened with that? His/her contract is null and void too if the A.S.program has been ousted from the school.
Fact you might not realize: the A.S.program business doesn't have the standing to sponsor your visa. That is why they are piggy-backing on the public school. I find the A.S.programs to be like a parasite on the host of the school. Perhaps your school feels the same and picked off the parasite!
Now, make close friends with all at your school. Find out what is happening to the parents money that's coming in to pay for their kids lessons. Who's administrating in the absence of the A.S.program? Talk to these people to re-establish your benefits and what not.
Now, to you. You now stand a very good chance to negotiate yourself a beautiful contract. You did the math! You see the profit! How much do you want? 2.8+housing? 3.0+? As long as you cozy up to the school admin (or whoever is now operating things) and tell them you respect what they are doing, nada, nada, nada... get my drift?
PS. Please tell us the A.S.program company name and the area of the school you are in. This will serve as fair warning for those who come across this company.
Anyway, let this thread go it's way now. Good luck to you. |
Outstanding clarity, thanks for your response. You're completely right that it WAS a good thing, it looked perfect when the AS program was out of the way and I was working directly with the school and no middleman.
Now that the AS company is out of the picture it has been the AS program director at the school who has been in charge. She is the one who is unapproachable at the moment, says she doesn't want to answer any questions from here on out. There is also a panel of administrators that will apparently make the ultimate decision. Don't know much beyond that.
The amount per student is about half of what you quoted (I know, I have friends who work for AS programs and think I'm BSing them) but there are still around 120 students. At first my co-teacher told me I would be making between 2.8-3 million, but they have only met the amount I was making with the AS school company. I spoke up about it when I found out, the AS director lost face when I gave her a what the hell is this response, and now I'm not allowed to question anything that happens.
My K co-teacher has been the same from the beginning and she goes when I go. I'll ask her to try to make friends with or inquire about who some of the people who will be making the decisions are, but she's about to get married and kind of doesn't care much at this point.
I kind of went into distress/tangent mode because of the last week. But what you said highlighted what my hopes were from what I had been told when this all went down. What I'm unsure about is what will happen from here.
Thanks again for your response, what you said was a situation I anticipated but which unfortunately didn't wind up happening. I want to negotiate but I've been told to keep my mouth shut. I'll try to be more direct: What might be some likely results of me negotiating with a strong fist if they try to force me out before February, knowing that the principal and AS director's jobs are on the line if I were to take a trip to the MOE? Is the weight on my side? I don't think it would be wise to name the school's area or especially the AS company at this point. Certainly in the future if anything goes down 
Thanks. Any other advice would be appreciated if you have it. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Emark wrote: |
Now, to you. You now stand a very good chance to negotiate yourself a beautiful contract. You did the math! You see the profit! How much do you want? 2.8+housing? 3.0+? As long as you cozy up to the school admin (or whoever is now operating things) and tell them you respect what they are doing, nada, nada, nada... get my drift?
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this is a pipe dream. the school will also do the math - no doubt already has and figured if they cut the middleman (the program dir) they can keep the profits themselves. do you seriously think they're planning to up the NET's salary? I don't. I think they'll do what they can to cut the NET out, even fire him and hire someone else, because he's already associated with the other program, i.e., he knows too much.
the hesitancy of the OP in this case does him no good. OP, no offense, and it's always hard when schools go out of business but you have to be firm but tactful, know exactly what you want and be very clear. doesn't mean you need to ruffle any feathers but you need to communicate that your situation is precarious being a foreigner on a sponsored visa.
rather than keep asking "what are my options" try and clarify what you want, first and foremost. then ask how do you go about getting that. then have a plan B, always.
as for your co-teacher, it's good to have a rapport, but her position is probably even less secure than your own. she knows she can be much more easily replaced than a foreign teacher which will definitely play a part in whatever discussions she has with the school.
good luck. |
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Emark
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: duh, Korea?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
this is a pipe dream. the school will also do the math - no doubt already has and figured if they cut the middleman (the program dir) they can keep the profits themselves. do you seriously think they're planning to up the NET's salary? I don't. I think they'll do what they can to cut the NET out, even fire him and hire someone else, because he's already associated with the other program, i.e., he knows too much.
the hesitancy of the OP in this case does him no good. OP, no offense, and it's always hard when schools go out of business but you have to be firm but tactful, know exactly what you want and be very clear. doesn't mean you need to ruffle any feathers but you need to communicate that your situation is precarious being a foreigner on a sponsored visa.
as for your co-teacher, ...her position is probably even less secure than your own. she knows she can be much more easily replaced than a foreign teacher which will definitely play a part in whatever discussions she has with the school.
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Nothing but warm fuzzies and positive encouragement here.
HarryMorgan,just try to stay one step ahead of them. Get as much info about what they are thinking and don't argue or complain. Don't depend on their answers or accept them like they are all knowing. Often, the NET may have a better grasp of immi law and procedure than the school!
It's not a pipe dream to think you can negotiate a fatter contract if you've solidified that you are not out to cause trouble and convince them you are a solid team player. learn about what your plans b, c, and d can be and how to implement them if necessary. The fact that you are still in the game after all that has happened is beyond me.
Good experience for ya! Keep us posted! |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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You need to go to the labor board and tell them what's going on. Ask them exactly what your options are. How to get back pay, how to transfer to another school. If the employer closed up shop and fired you for that reason, they legally have to inform you 30 days in advance. They didn't. In any case, since they went out of business (or are still doing business and just fired you) then you can transfer your visa. You don't need to do all the paperwork again.
Most importantly, get to the labor board to get some accurate advice. |
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HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Emark and Troglodyte. The director knows I signed a lease on an apartment and I reiterated to her last week that I'm on the same page as them. I talked to my co-teacher today about cozying up with anyone who might have any influence in the decision but we are the after school teachers so no one really pays attention to us. Especially me, I'm a ghost there, just in and out five hours a day. But my CT's parents are loaded and she has a lawyer lined up that she's mentioned so who knows how it will play out.
It seems pretty certain that we'll be there until at least the new term in September so that will allow me to get a couple paychecks under me. And thank you for reminding me about the 30 days notice, Troglodyte. That kind of skipped my mind in all this. I would guess that they would hire another after school agency in September or February, give me the 30 days notice, and have me break in the new guy, if they won't keep going with the current setup. They always mention that they hate changing teachers and only had two teachers in the five years before me. That was their stated reason for keeping us there and that bodes well since just about every student really likes me at this point.
I called the labor board this morning briefly but the guy I talked to didn't have anything very useful to say and didn't really seem to understand the situation. Probably my fault since I don't fully understand it myself. For the record, the agency I was contracted with split up and the company I was contracted under may not even exist now. I believe if anything happens the school would readily provide me with an LOR to keep my mouth shut. Anyway, hope it all works out in my favor, thanks again for the input. |
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