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roguefishfood
Joined: 21 May 2011
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 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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So... my veterinarian is an awesome guy. He's a total sweetheart, fluent in English, works hard, great to my dog, and is endlessly helping me out and translating stuff for me. I feel like the most annoying customer ever and a burden.
Today, I drop off the pup for a groom, and he takes me in the back and says "I have two kids, can you do private lessons?" Obviously I have to apologetically explain that no, they could deport me if I do that, and I'm basically a scaredy-cat.
I feel horribly guilty now. I totally owe him a favor and I feel awful about having to say no. Is it legal to teach privates for free? I don't care about the money I just want to help this guy out. Is there any way around this? Anybody know an F-series visa person in Daegu who's wanting some business? |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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| roguefishfood wrote: |
| . Is it legal to teach privates for free? |
nope it is not legal assuming you have an E2 visa. If immigration finds out there might be trouble for you. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| roguefishfood wrote: |
| . Is it legal to teach privates for free? |
nope it is not legal assuming you have an E2 visa. If immigration finds out there might be trouble for you. |
I don't think immi can do anything about a person merely holding a conversation with two children of a friend.... (nudge nudge wink wink) |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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I regularly went out with a student and his family all the time. It was a great exchange. I got to see specific parts of Korea and not have to worry about directions or transportation. They got to talk with a native English speaker.
I wouldn't worry about it. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
I regularly went out with a student and his family all the time. It was a great exchange. I got to see specific parts of Korea and not have to worry about directions or transportation. They got to talk with a native English speaker.
I wouldn't worry about it. |
This is right. There are certainly no laws against befriending a Korean family. Just purge the terms "teaching" & "privates" from how you view & talk about the relationship. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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| sml7285 wrote: |
| young_clinton wrote: |
| roguefishfood wrote: |
| . Is it legal to teach privates for free? |
nope it is not legal assuming you have an E2 visa. If immigration finds out there might be trouble for you. |
I don't think immi can do anything about a person merely holding a conversation with two children of a friend.... (nudge nudge wink wink) |
They might if you took money, which seems to be what you're suggesting from the winking and the nudging. Moreover, if one's bosses were to find out it could be a pretty serious issue, even if it's just friendly. |
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viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Myself personally, I turned down privates when I was on E2. Actually even on F2 it's problematic. I had to register with the board of education and the tax service. It's up to you what you want to do, but I'm just saying that in my case I saw the potential penalty (deportation, never to return) as too high of a risk, even if the chances are being caught are slim. Still you never know. It could be someone undercover, it could be a disgruntled customer turns you in, could be a jealous friend. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| Myself personally, I turned down privates when I was on E2. Actually even on F2 it's problematic. I had to register with the board of education and the tax service. It's up to you what you want to do, but I'm just saying that in my case I saw the potential penalty (deportation, never to return) as too high of a risk, even if the chances are being caught are slim. Still you never know. It could be someone undercover, it could be a disgruntled customer turns you in, could be a jealous friend. |
PARANOID post above.
That's all folks. |
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Hang on. It seems like everyone here is assuming the nice vet won't feel obliged to make a donation to the NET's favorite charity? Or give free care to their pet. Or take the NET out to the best dinner he/she will ever have in Korea.
I'm just spit balling here as I've been asked the same question and given the same answer, but the person doing the asking was much, much closer to my employer than a vet so I had no choice.
I've thought, quite a lot, about how to circumvent the rules regarding our teaching 'off the books'. I have come to the conclusion that if Korea allowed this its tax take would reduce considerably and the cost of housing, transport, infrastructure and health care would rise, some what. I want to continue living in a pleasant land and so I have to admit the kids learning in a hagwon that pays its taxes is better than my tutoring where I'd likely not pay any.
Still, you could take the little'uns out for a pizza. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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| northway wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
| young_clinton wrote: |
| roguefishfood wrote: |
| . Is it legal to teach privates for free? |
nope it is not legal assuming you have an E2 visa. If immigration finds out there might be trouble for you. |
I don't think immi can do anything about a person merely holding a conversation with two children of a friend.... (nudge nudge wink wink) |
They might if you took money, which seems to be what you're suggesting from the winking and the nudging. Moreover, if one's bosses were to find out it could be a pretty serious issue, even if it's just friendly. |
Well the OP did title the thread "(Can I teach privates for free)." Free generally implies... well free. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Any way around this? (Can I teach privates for free?) |
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| roguefishfood wrote: |
So... my veterinarian is an awesome guy. He's a total sweetheart, fluent in English, works hard, great to my dog, and is endlessly helping me out and translating stuff for me. I feel like the most annoying customer ever and a burden.
Today, I drop off the pup for a groom, and he takes me in the back and says "I have two kids, can you do private lessons?" Obviously I have to apologetically explain that no, they could deport me if I do that, and I'm basically a scaredy-cat.
I feel horribly guilty now. I totally owe him a favor and I feel awful about having to say no. Is it legal to teach privates for free? I don't care about the money I just want to help this guy out. Is there any way around this? Anybody know an F-series visa person in Daegu who's wanting some business? |
so let's see. you've embarked on a more-than-professional relationship with someone you have a great deal in common with, namely your dog. this person has previously extended friendship and respect towards you, as you have mentioned and appreciated. now this individual wishes to extend the friendship further and instead of approving, you have hesitated out of fear.
that's really sad. if you like this person, and would like to know him better and meet his family, there is certainly no harm in that. you've already stated to him your fears, that's certainly appropriate. you already know your dog likes him, what better reference could he possibly have?? 
your overall experience in Korea will expand in very positive directions and enhance your stay immensely if you take the plunge and go for it. be a friend, work out the questions privately between the 2 of you and trust your instincts. I cannot say enough about how good it is to actually have Korean friends that are just that - friends. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| Myself personally, I turned down privates when I was on E2. Actually even on F2 it's problematic. I had to register with the board of education and the tax service. It's up to you what you want to do, but I'm just saying that in my case I saw the potential penalty (deportation, never to return) as too high of a risk, even if the chances are being caught are slim. Still you never know. It could be someone undercover, it could be a disgruntled customer turns you in, could be a jealous friend. |
PARANOID post above.
That's all folks. |
Pigs must be flying somewhere. I actually agree with YTMND on this one.
If there's no money changing hands, it's not illegal. Even if you were teaching privates for money and got caught, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, the worst that would happen is being kicked out of the country for 2 years. Most likely though, you'd get a warning.
Anyway, the boys at immigration would have to first find out that you were working illegally, and then prove it. Just because you're at your friends house a couple times per week will not raise any suspicions from the neighbors and it's certainly not proof that you were illegally working there. If the kids come to YOUR apartment a few times a week, then it may lead to immi finding out and investigating. Most people who get caught teaching privates do so because the teacher didn't plan it out well and either were too blatant about it (putting up flier around the neighborhood or having a lot of kids coming and going from their apartment) or they were poaching students from somewhere or someone - sometimes the hogwon that actually employs them. Parents talk. Word gets around. Maybe one of the moms doesn't like the tutor anymore so she reports him. I've heard of a few getting caught because they were getting paid directly into their bank account and when immigration investigated them, it was obvious from their bank account that something was going on.
I think that unless a teacher lives in an area with a lot of nice apartment buildings and can get a bunch of privates close together (in schedule and physically nearby) then it's not so profitable to have privates students. The teacher spends too much time running around (time for which they aren't paid). In my opinion, it's more profitable to do part-time work with a hogwon. Part time work pays a lot more than overtime at a regular job, and you can specify to the hogwon (or the recruiter) that you won't take a job unless they guarantee a certain number of consecutive hours.
OP, in your case you don't need to worry. It's not illegal to teach for free. There are plenty of people (on an E2 even) who teach at orphanages or other institutions for disadvantaged children - for free. Plenty of foreigners also do language exchange - for free. Usually they teach English to a Korean in exchange for getting free Korean lessons. There are websites and cafes that cater specifically to this. I've even seen one website where they also promoted the language exchange where one person taught a language and the other bought dinner or drinks.
I would guess that if you told your friend that you could teach his kids but that you can't accept money for it, and that in fact you'd feel bad about accepting money from a friend for something so small, he probably won't ask you to teach much. I've had friends ask me to teach their kids. If I have the time, I offer to do it for free. It's not because I'm worried about immigration catching me but mainly because I don't want to do business with my friends - but I'm willing to help them out. I think that they're usually uncomfortable about not paying a friend back for the work and they turn down the offer or it ends up being just a short lesson once or twice a week and I get dinner afterwards.
In short, you don't have anything to worry about as far as immigration. Just don't tell people what you're doing and make sure it's at their home, not yours.
I hope that helps. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Teaching English would imply a prolonged help session. What if immigration decides that you might be teaching English to someone else and they decide to question you about it? |
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nick70100
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm curious... how exactly does immigration catch people doing this sort of thing? and what happens next?
I would guess a lot of their information comes from people phoning in tips or whatever. I can't imagine they're out cruising the streets looking for people who may be teaching privately. But what happens after they've been tipped off? they start gathering evidence? surveillance? what sort of evidence do they need? and who do they have to show it to? Who makes the decision? Is there a trial or hearing of some sort? Can you appeal? Or do they just send you straight to the airport?
I just don't understand how it all works. It also seems like it would be nearly impossible to prove that money has changed hands as long as cash is used. There does seem to be a lot of paranoia surrounding the issue here on Dave's though. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Beware of the incorrect info above ^ .
Teaching English anywhere other than the address on your ARC is illegal if you are an E2 teacher and if you are a dependent of an E2 teacher.
Teaching private lessons on an E2 visa is illegal even when you teach for free.
As to getting caught, the chances are small, but the most likely way you will be caught is by someone turning you in to Immigration.
If you teach in your own apartment, or even in other apartments in your own apartment building or complex, there is a good chance that you will stir up jealousy in a neighbor who will turn you in.
If you take students from your own school, or any other school that finds out about you, or if you have made any Korean enemies, or foriegn teacher enemies, or have p.o.'d your ex ____friend ... anyone with an axe to grind who finds out about you may turn you in.
I've seen numerous cases of E2s teaching privates who got caught - some who received warnings from Immigration and some who were deported and banned from working in Korea - this includes both lessons given free and exchange lessons. There is also the possibility of someone using the threat of reporting a known E2 private teacher as blackmail. |
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