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Have any married people here naturalized?
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge, most of your issues are self-inflicted.

If your plan was and is to come to Korea short term and return home that's great. In such a context you would be a complete outsider to Koreans and that would be normal and expected because, well, you will leave sooner than later! It would also make sense (to you) not to learn the language because, well, you will be leaving soon.

However, your expectations are out of proportion to your investment in Korea. You are the master of your situation and there are lots of things you can or could do to improve your lot.

Learning the language is at the top of the list because then, guess what? You become autonomous and can converse with people in Korea in their own language.

Wow...who knew?

By the way TJ is far from alone in knowing Korean. I too am fluent in that language (studied it) and am able to debate my points, make myself understood and other such basic things, without my wife's help. If YOU cannot then that is all on you. It is your choice and you have to live with it.

For the record, I was not treated like an outsider by my co-workers, Korean friends, Korean family, nor by Koreans in my neighborhood. The rest were to a varying degree strangers and as others have said why would you care what Mr Kim over there thinks of you as you pass him on the sidewalk???

Do you care what John Doe back home thinks of you as you pass him on the street? Here is hint: you should not care all that much because the odds are he does not even register you exist nor care about you....yeah I know shocker. Shocked

The basic rule in life is that you get out of any situation what you put into it in the first place. Expecting something from nothing is stupid.

As for your "going home" position, I have been curious about it for a while as you rant and post here. Your wife being Korean, did you ever ask yourself what "home" means to her? Also, since you are about to have a mixed-child who will be half American and half Korean, how do you think your berating and dumping all over Korea will go over with your wife and what impact will it have on your kid? Heck, how would you feel if your wife constantly puked and put down your home country, its culture, its people, its language? It is one thing to dislike/disagree on certain parts of your spouses culture (and vice versa), we all do that. You however come off as hating and looking down on the culture and country of your spouse.
My wife and I, after 13 years together still disagree on certain cultural aspects of each others culture (ex: approach to education) but thats done with respect. I would also never rant about Korea or Koreans in front of my mixed kids because frankly speaking that is how prejudice and racism is passed on!

As for the OP: I think it is great he naturalized because it made sense for him. I did not go that route because at the time Korea did not recognize dual citizenship and I did not wish to have to drop my Canadian citizenship. Had dual citizenship been open, I would certainly have gone down the naturalization path because he would have made lots of sense as a permanent resident of Korea (when I was there). It would have led to further integration and to the ability to vote and take part in local issues in a deeper fashion which is what a person does when they have a stake in the place they reside in....


Last edited by PatrickGHBusan on Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
For the record, I was not treated like an outsider by my co-workers, Korean friends, Korean family, nor by Koreans in my neighborhood. The rest were to a varying degree strangers and as others have said why would you care what Mr Kim over there thinks of you as you pass him on the sidewalk???


Here's the thing: you don't even need to be fluent in order to get that kind of warm response from the people you see regularly. Make an effort to speak some Korean, be respectful, do your job, and the people you routinely interact with will respect you (just like anywhere else in the world, shockingly). I'm not going to deny that Korean culture has a xenophobic streak, but going through life in Korea permanently paranoid that every smiling face is just a nefarious mask is both absurd and self-defeating.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
For the record, I was not treated like an outsider by my co-workers, Korean friends, Korean family, nor by Koreans in my neighborhood. The rest were to a varying degree strangers and as others have said why would you care what Mr Kim over there thinks of you as you pass him on the sidewalk???


Here's the thing: you don't even need to be fluent in order to get that kind of warm response from the people you see regularly. Make an effort to speak some Korean, be respectful, do your job, and the people you routinely interact with will respect you (just like anywhere else in the world, shockingly). I'm not going to deny that Korean culture has a xenophobic streak, but going through life in Korea permanently paranoid that every smiling face is just a nefarious mask is both absurd and self-defeating.


Could not agree more.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:

yeah and I'm sure you can get into an argument with the ajusshi at the police station or government office (for example) and fully understand and express yourself in a coherent manner if the situation arises. Don't kid yourself. You don't know enough Korean to be able to stand on one foot in this society.

T-J wrote:

Puleez!

Dude, I first came here 21 years ago. I finished the Yeonsei KLI program 18 years ago. I've been married for 17 years and our primary language has always been Korean.

I run our business in Korean. I communicate with our son's teachers at PS in Korean. I am far from helplessly holding my wife's hand while she speaks for me.

I think going back to your country is the best thing for you if you are unable or unwilling to invest the time and effort into learning the language. I wouldn't stay here if I was in your current position.




lol. i'm fascinated by people like dodge7 who never get tired of being absolutely wrong and made fools of.

dodge7, i really think you should pm modernist. i think you guys would have a great time sitting around ranting about how much you hate it here, whining about your own obviously poor decisions to be in korea, and punching each other in the testes out of rage or whatever it is that you types do when you get butt-hurt for making stupid choices.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
dodge7, i really think you should pm modernist. i think you guys would have a great time sitting around ranting about how much you hate it here, whining about your own obviously poor decisions to be in korea, and punching each other in the testes out of rage or whatever it is that you types do when you get butt-hurt for making stupid choices


No, don't PM each other, do it openly on here. It'd be a lot more entertaining than reading PGB droning on about how he combats racism.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And there's nothing much you can do....

as you stand there next to your wife like a little boy holding his mommy's hand....

emasculated, because she has to do all the talking.





Dodge, you have look at this positively. Not being good at Korean can be a major advantage in a relationship in the same way as is not being good at cleaning or doing the dishes. Wink If I spoke good Korean I'd be doing twice the number of day to day chores as I am at the moment.
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