Korean Job Discussion Forums

[YTMND]

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I included the details. The short of it is that I made a list of files in a directory that I had seen on and off every day pretty much for 2 weeks. It was a movie folder, and I only meant to get a list of the movies in that directory. However, the person who owns the hard drive which I made this list from thought I may have copied all files or made lists of all files on his hard drives (1 internal, 2 external). Even after explaining what I did, he seemed less trusting and stopped communicating with me.

My view is that he had every right to question me to find out the extent of what I did. However, after finding out what I actually did he should have stopped worrying. He seems to still not trust me. I think that is a bigger problem than the misunderstanding I tried to clear up. So, here are more specific details. You can skim through any part you think is irrelevant. If you don't like drama, then no one is forcing you to read this. It's a silly teacher conflict, and I wish it had never happened. However, I don't see myself 100% fault here and absolutely in the clear now because I explained myself afterwards, intentions and all.

I start at my new school in September, university job. I moved here in June and another new teacher moved in 10 days later, but he had to stay in a different building until a previous teacher moved out. When he moved into the apartment, 2 doors down from me, he asked me about getting a desktop computer working. The university provides each teacher with 1 desktop computer. I have my own, so I have 2 desktops and a netbook. He has an extra laptop.

The desktop they provided him with only had 500mb of RAM and it looks like the previous teacher used an external hard drive for the main installation of Windows. I swapped computers then, the one I was given has 1gb of RAM, which he has now and Windows 7 installed.

He has a Chinese wife and for the next 2 weeks we hung out together. We would go into the center of a major city to buy stuff and helped each other out. In the evenings, the three of us would eat some food we prepared or paid for and watched movies. During the day, we often talked about the movies and they were stored on at least one of 2 external hard drives he has and 1 external hard drive I have. In addition, I would transfer them onto a USB stick for easier use. When we watched movies it was on his laptop though.

Well, I got a program online to make a list of the files in a directory. I use it to post the movies I have. It copies the directory names and the file names inside any of the subfolders. However, I delete this info because all I am concerned about is getting a list of just the movies.

I mentioned it to him one day, and we tried to install it on his laptop. The .exe file wouldn't work, but there was an .msi file which installed onto the computer fine. He saw that I had successfully installed this program and said nothing to me about it. He also knew why I wanted to install the program, to get a list of the movies he has which is about 3-4 times longer. I only keep movies that I really like and remove others even if they are average.

A day or so later we go into the center of a big city to do some shopping and on the way back, I showed him the list. It was from one of the external hard drives which we watched movies from (2 weeks again, we had been mutually sharing our external hard drives for 2 weeks every day and often in the evenings). He saw it and asked, "Oh from the program?". No objections, nothing. He knew I was going to do it, and I didn't see any problems at that point.

The next day, almost around midnight (meaning almost into the third day), he knocked on my door and was surprised I was sleeping (around 11:30pm). I let him in, and he confronted me on the assumption I copied all files from his laptop and possibly from the external hard drives. I explained I did no such thing and offered to show him exactly what I did.

He seemed relieved after he saw that I only went to one folder called movies and only made a list of the folders (Which in essence is a list of the movies since they are the name of the folder). Some were files instead. Then, he said, "How do I know you aren't just a good actor?". I tried to explain again to him what I did and that I had and still have no idea what else is on his computer. The only thing I "copied" was information about the movies he copied through torrents which I would consider a bigger "crime". We spent 2 weeks looking at each other's movie folder. It wasn't like I peaked into a closet or snuck into something of his without reasonable grounds. He knew I installed the program and I thought he knew why I did that. If he thought I would copy actual files, then why would he even let me install the program in the first place. It is just a list maker anyway.

So, still not believing me, he tells me that he can prove I copied all files. His reasoning lies in the fact you can type part of a file name where you save a file and the rest of the file name will appear. He thinks/thought that it mean I had to have done it in the program or else it wouldn't show up. It appears if you select a directory on the left, then it will index the files and you can have the file name autocomplete. I think what he was doing was clicking on a directory and then starting to type a file name of some person file to see it autocomplete.

I explained this to him and he seemed less tense and confrontation but still didn't seem to want to be found wrong. We then watched a movie to relax and I was hoping that that would be the end of it. The next day, he asked to see my guitar. I brought my guitar over with my effects box (just think of it like a printer or digital camera). First thing I did was explain to him a different way to care for the guitar than he does with his. He paused. He didn't expect that apparently.

I don't know if that was a good thing that he learned something from me that if you want others to use your stuff, set out the rules first or was it a bad thing because he might not have an understanding of sharing things and be a little upset I would offer up my stuff with a possible expectation I could use his stuff. At that point, I really didn't know. He said that he wouldn't be using my guitar even though he asked to see it. Usually, when one guitar player asks to see another guitar player's guitar that means they are going to want to play on it.

His behavior is not normal from encounters I have had with other people. I am usually seen as the private type, who keeps his things away from others. I have learned over the years to share, and I never had an issue when students or teachers would come into my classroom to use things like USB sticks and such. I even had a few try using my computer and complained they didn't know the password (which was just one space). I thought it was funny when I explained to them, and I never thought of it as an invasion of privacy. Trying to figure out my password seems like a worse act than copying a list of movies from a folder you already spent 2 weeks seeing.

Before I left, I looked around in the general area of his apartment to make sure all my adapters and cords were packed up. Before, when I fixed up his computer, he had no problem. However, I could tell he seemed worried when I was simply packing my stuff up. For example, I thought left a manual for the effects box and picked up some writing. It was just a few pages stapled together with a few English words being defined. Something an English teacher would have. Well, I think he saw me when I looked at it to determine if it was mine and may not have liked that.

Since then, we haven't hung out. It's not the end of the world if we don't, but I am curious what to do this coming September. It's quite possible we are going to have to work together on after school projects. There is a third teacher who has already taught here, and he is supposed to be returning as well. That should provide for some kind of mediator, but what if the new teacher I have hung out with doesn't want to interact with either of us?

There is definitely going to be an elephant in the room/on campus each time I communicate with him. I don't know if he is going to move on from this incident or always feel like he has to be on the lookout.

[nautilus]

Dude nobody is going to bother to wade through all that.

You need to simplify it.


Basically you copied someone elses intellectual property without asking. You are at fault and I'm not surprised the person no longer trusts you.

Apologise, try to make amends, learn your lesson, and move on.

[YTMND]

[YTMND]

I am very interested in turning this up a notch and making it into a more philosophical debate. If anyone is a Locke or Rand fan, I encourage you to chime in.

"Various moral justifications for private property can be used to argue in favor of the morality of intellectual property, such as:

Natural Rights/Justice Argument: this argument is based on Locke�s idea that a person has a natural right over the labour and/or products which is produced by his/her body. Appropriating these products is viewed as unjust. Although Locke had never explicitly stated that natural right applied to products of the mind,[24] it is possible to apply his argument to intellectual property rights, in which it would be unjust for people to misuse another's ideas.[25] Lokeans argument for intellectual property is based upon the idea that laborers have the right to control that which they create. They argue that we own our bodies which are the laborers, this right of ownership extends to what we create. Thus, intellectual property ensures this right when it comes to production.

Utilitarian-Pragmatic Argument: according to this rationale, a society that protects private property is more effective and prosperous than societies that do not. Innovation and invention in 19th century America has been said to be attributed to the development of the patent system.[26] By providing innovators with "durable and tangible return on their investment of time, labor, and other resources", intellectual property rights seek to maximize social utility.[27] The presumption is that they promote public welfare by encouraging the "creation, production, and distribution of intellectual works".[28] Utilitarians argue that without intellectual property there would be a lack of incentive to produce new idea. Systems of protection such as Intellectual property optimize social utility.

"Personality" Argument: this argument is based on a quote from Hegel: "Every man has the right to turn his will upon a thing or make the thing an object of his will, that is to say, to set aside the mere thing and recreate it as his own".[29] European intellectual property law is shaped by this notion that ideas are an "extension of oneself and of one�s personality".[30] Personality theorists argue that by being a creator of something one is inherently at risk and vulnerable for having their ideas and designs stolen and/or altered. Intellectual property protects these moral claims that have to do with personality.

Writer Ayn Rand has argued that the protection of intellectual property is essentially a moral issue. The belief is that the human mind itself is the source of wealth and survival and that all property at its base is intellectual property. To violate intellectual property is therefore no different morally than violating other property rights which compromises the very processes of survival and therefore constitutes an immoral act.[31]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

[YTMND]

For anyone who still thinks I am in the wrong, please address the following:

1. If I said to you, "I have a program that will copy files from your computer, can I install it?" and you didn't want me to, why would you give me permission to install the program? Why would you sit 5 feet away and watch me on three occasions trying to install it?

2. If I said to you, "I have a program to copy file A, can I do that?" and you said, "Yes, go ahead." Is it reasonable to assume I would install the program and then copy file A? If not, why would you allow me to install the program but not allow me to copy file A even though you know the only reason for me to install the program was to get file A?

3. Instead of copying file A, I simply made a list which gave the names of files A-Z. I didn't actually copy any files, nor did I record the names of any text documents, videos, audio files, or photos authored by the person.

4. Do you think a better position on this is that each person has a right to "their rules", and it is the responsibility of others to respect those rules AFTER they are communicated? I was not aware of this person's "rules" until said incident, and I have been on the opposite end where people took my USB stick and even copied files from it. If I didn't want them to do it, I wouldn't have given the USB stick to them or the access in the first place. I think I would have been partly or wholly responsible for my stuff. That's why I explain rules like the one about my guitar before another person would use it. Then I could reasonably expect them to follow the rules. Another guitar player may have different rules.

5. If you still disagree, then I guess the only way to be on good terms with you is to not trust you either and ask about every possible wrong I could commit without common sense or forgiving to enter into the picture. Please let people you interact with know about this, because if they are like me they are going to break your 10 commandments. I guarantee it. Get the beds in hell laid out.

[sirius black]

It doesn't matter if all of us on here agree with you and you show him the posts, bottom line is the guy doesn't believe or trust you and there isnt much you can do about it.
Its just one of those things. Everyone has had experience with someone who was wrongly accused or had their actions, innocent actions, intrepreted wrong.
Just gotta move on. Just do your job, work with him when you have to and leave it at that. He's always going to think you did something perhaps. Maybe he's being overly dramatic. My guess is he has something on his computer he believes is embarassing. Porn or whatever.
Doesn't matter. Just do your job and be you. My advice is to distance yourself from him. No more 'movie' nights. Keep it more professional and just cordial.

[luckylady]

just take a break from each other until school starts.

when school does start, act like nothing happened and see how the other teacher acts also. be cool, professional and polite. don't overdo it. try to avoid one on one time with him, stick with group activities.

over time it will fade away, just let it. take the high road if he brings it up and make light of it, let it be in the past, where it belongs. don't let him bring it to an argument; it was a misunderstanding, keep it at that level.

don't obsess over this as you are clearly already starting to do. it's just a blip in time and means nothing in the long run. it's just not worth the energy you're putting into it. really.

there are a LOT of people who are just not that familiar with computer files and everything regarding their arrangement, etc., could be he's just not that computer literate, is paranoid and not terribly confident; he's worried you know more and quite possibly threatened by that, and other things.

just let it go. move on.

[tardisrider]

tl;dr

[YTMND]

[JustinC]

You don't have to be best buds with every colleague, as long as you're polite and courteous and professional at work this will suffice. You might have to bite the bullet and talk to him on occasion but this is just part of being in a working environment - talking to other people who you don't share views with. It won't be long before you understand where he's coming from when you start back at work, until then it's just conjecture so all you're doing now is worrying about something which might not happen. If he's antagonistic at work then you can react to that but, as with any colleague, wait a while to see if the behavior progresses, escalates or fades. Then you can determine what action you'd like to take as, until that time, all you're doing now is hurting yourself. Don't feel like this misunderstanding is automatically his fault or your fault.

[CrikeyKorea]

When did universities start hiring 14 year old girls?

[wylies99]

You tried to socialize and it's just not going to happen, friendship-wise.It's never fun to work with other foreign teachers but some can be selfish, obnoxious, or just plain weird. If you work together then you probably also live close to each other. That's just too much time together, even if you do get along. My advice? Make it a "hi" and "bye" relationship outside of work and just talk to that other teacher as little as possible at work. Believe me, it's for the best.

[asdfghjkl]

The guy is weird, a turd, and passive-aggressive. If this didn't happen, it was just going to be something else sooner or later. The first step is to stop caring about what he thinks. Second, make sure to stand up for yourself if he brings it up again or he will keep doing similar things.

People get off from this kind of stuff. Making others uncomfortable over stupid little things gives them the feeling of being significant. His behavior on the bus shows this as well. Is he also late for stuff all the time?

[nautilus]

[YTMND]