|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
carnivalbeauty
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
|
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: Who do I approach next /complaints against teacher/school |
 |
|
I came through Epik and was placed in a met city. I was harassed/bullied by a co- teacher. This was reported by myself to the principal and the MOE. By myself and another teacher.
As a direct result I had to leave and was given a letter of recommendation by the head of the MOE. I have since contacted EPIK and asked them to investigate into what happened as the head of the MOE said it wasnt his responsibility. Epik are ignoring my emails.
Who can I contact next?? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| They aren't going to anything about it. It's you (an expendable foreigner) vs. a unionized Korean. You don't stand a chance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes. Move on. They aren't going to turn against a Korean teacher for you, and the more stink you make out of it, the more chance they will try to make settling into a new job difficult.
They gave you a LOR. So, they probably accept you weren't at fault.
It is best to move on as best you can... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Who do I approach next /complaints against teacher/schoo |
|
|
| carnivalbeauty wrote: |
I came through Epik and was placed in a met city. I was harassed/bullied by a co- teacher. This was reported by myself to the principal and the MOE. By myself and another teacher.
As a direct result I had to leave and was given a letter of recommendation by the head of the MOE. I have since contacted EPIK and asked them to investigate into what happened as the head of the MOE said it wasnt his responsibility. Epik are ignoring my emails.
Who can I contact next?? |
There is no next. Move on.
, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ACT III
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The only option besides moving on, is getting a lawyer. That is assuming you have an overwhelming amount of evidence linking this co-teacher to something illegal and you found a lawyer willing to take a case like that. It would be a lengthy painful process and in the end, assuming you win, I'm not sure what you're expecting to happen. I'm guessing for the teacher to loose their job and for you to be compensated.
So unless you feel like emptying your bank account and hitting the street in search of a lawyer, move on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Who do I approach next /complaints against teacher/schoo |
|
|
| carnivalbeauty wrote: |
| I came through Epik and was placed in a met city. |
This means you're with a public school and your actual employer is the MOE.
| Quote: |
| I was harassed/bullied by a co- teacher. |
What do you mean by "harassed/bullied"?
| Quote: |
| This was reported by myself to the principal and the MOE. By myself and another teacher. |
Was the co-teacher who reported the harassment/bullying the co-teacher assigned to supervise you, aka "foreigner handler"? If not, the report is meaningless--if it even happened that she actually reported it instead of merely telling you she would.
| Quote: |
| As a direct result I had to leave and was given a letter of recommendation by the head of the MOE. |
You do realize that the MOE is your employer, right? If they're the ones who said you're the one to leave, then that's it: you're the one to leave. Not only are they your employer, they are a governmental entity and their decision is pretty much it. In other words: the gubmint said you're the one at fault.
| Quote: |
| I have since contacted EPIK and asked them to investigate into what happened as the head of the MOE said it wasnt his responsibility. Epik are ignoring my emails. |
As far as both entities are concerned, the issue is closed. You're fired, you have a letter of release, and you're on your own.
If you've been with the same MOE for longer than six months and there was an actual violation of labor law, then you can pursue a complaint with the Labor Board. If there was a violation of the contract which did not involve violating labor law, then you can sue in court. Be advised that it is time-consuming and incredibly expensive except for small-claims court.
If you want some on-point advice, you'll have to say what the "harassment/bullying" was. Was it simply, "You're not a real man/woman because you don't drink when the principal pours the soju" or was it "You're not a real teacher" or was it something more serious? As it stands now, your post is too light on data to get very useful advice.
| Quote: |
| Who can I contact next?? |
From the available data so far, I'd say the person to contact next is a travel agent. Sorry, but that does seem to be today's reality with the public school system. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Learn the lesson that your co-workers are rarely your friends. If another co-worker attempts to bully you in future stand up for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Who do I approach next /complaints against teacher/schoo |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| carnivalbeauty wrote: |
I came through Epik and was placed in a met city. I was harassed/bullied by a co- teacher. This was reported by myself to the principal and the MOE. By myself and another teacher.
As a direct result I had to leave and was given a letter of recommendation by the head of the MOE. I have since contacted EPIK and asked them to investigate into what happened as the head of the MOE said it wasnt his responsibility. Epik are ignoring my emails.
Who can I contact next?? |
There is no next. Move on.
, |
That's not true, ttompatz. And that's the second time in two days I've said that to you, regarding labor law.
OP, call a labor lawyer. If you need a #, pm me.
The OP was "asked to leave". Was a termination letter given?? I would bet $100 no.
As foreign teachers, we have rights. If you don't understand the rights, then look up Korea Labor Law. If you feel your rights have been violated, and you wish to be advised and represented, CALL A LABOR LAWYER.
Foreign teachers have to learn to stick up for themselves. They have to learn that Dave's is an ok place to complain or to talk about Costco but otherwise it's a bunch of people that know nothing, being advised by people that know very little.
People, stop letting yourselves get abused! Grow a pair, call a labor lawyer, and FIGHT! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Grow a pair, call a labor lawyer, and FIGHT! |
What are you going to fight for? If the school is helping the teacher find another school, then that is what a court would decide. It apparently isn't working out between them and the first school is helping the teacher to get a second school.
Forcing the first school to rehire is just as idiotic as a person forcing their spouse to stay with them and not abuse them anymore. If they are letting you loose, it's best you leave and move on. The love is lost. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Until we get details of the harassment and bullying we can not really say if a lawyer is needed.
Plus once again as I posted in her other thread, what does she want? What is her goal in mind. OK somebody bullied you, does she want an apology, the person fired, the person jailed, what?
Is this worth fighting for? Yea boss cheated you out of a couple months pay and severance. Yea, fight. Co-teacher assaulted you, damn skippy get some blood money or justice. Your co-teacher was difficult and bitchy. Constantly proved useless, that is an almost typical for many schools. Besides getting the chance to move, I can not see much else to be done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| YTMND wrote: |
| What are you going to fight for? If the school is helping the teacher find another school, then that is what a court would decide. |
Is that what you think? That a judgement in favor of the teacher's wrongful dismissal suit would simply be that the school should find him a new place of employment?
The "harrassment" and the wrongful dismissal are two seperate issues.
If the OP was terminated then he should have received a letter of termination. SCHOOLS DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE! The letter must provide a reason (just cause) for dismissal.
(By the way, OP, don't bother detailing the harrassment here. The idiots will just gather here and make judgements.)
| Skippy wrote: |
| Until we get details of the harassment and bullying we can not really say if a lawyer is needed. |
NO! A lawyer is needed to deal with the wrongful dismissal.
OP, I really hope you didn't sign any paper that said that you agreed to leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The "harrassment" and the wrongful dismissal are two seperate issues.
If the OP was terminated then he should have received a letter of termination. SCHOOLS DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE! The letter must provide a reason (just cause) for dismissal. |
So, you would rather live with an abusive spouse. Well, I wouldn't.
If things aren't working out, give me the letter of release, and I will happily move on. Filing some kind of harassment suit would be laughed at. You won't get anything and waste time in the pursuit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| YTstrawMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
The "harrassment" and the wrongful dismissal are two seperate issues.
If the OP was terminated then he should have received a letter of termination. SCHOOLS DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE! The letter must provide a reason (just cause) for dismissal. |
So, you would rather live with an abusive spouse. Well, I wouldn't.
If things aren't working out, give me the letter of release, and I will happily move on. Filing some kind of harassment suit would be laughed at. You won't get anything and waste time in the pursuit. |
Bold #1: strawman BS.
Bold #2: "harrassment lawsuit"? What are you talking about? I said he should sue for wrongful dismissal, if he was terminated without just cause. A favorable judgement could mean re-instatement, but usually it's a cash settlement.
If the OP is fine with moving on, this thread wouldn't exist. I don't blame him for being upset. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| YTstrawMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
The "harrassment" and the wrongful dismissal are two seperate issues.
If the OP was terminated then he should have received a letter of termination. SCHOOLS DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE! The letter must provide a reason (just cause) for dismissal. |
So, you would rather live with an abusive spouse. Well, I wouldn't.
If things aren't working out, give me the letter of release, and I will happily move on. Filing some kind of harassment suit would be laughed at. You won't get anything and waste time in the pursuit. |
Bold #1: strawman BS.
Bold #2: "harrassment lawsuit"? What are you talking about? I said he should sue for wrongful dismissal, if he was terminated without just cause. A favorable judgement could mean re-instatement, but usually it's a cash settlement.
If the OP is fine with moving on, this thread wouldn't exist. I don't blame him for being upset. |
You just cancelled your first point with your second.
If it's not harassment, then you are saying someone should stay with a company when they wrongfully dismiss them? Why would you want to continue working with them? If you don't like the spouse analogy pretend someone punches you or stabs you in the back. Are you really going to continue as if nothing happened? Business as usual? You must be one catatonic robot to want to go back to the abuse (hence the spouse analogy).
You said usually people get a cash settlement instead of "re-instatement". How many cases have you exactly witnessed or have records of to come to this conclusion. Until I see proof of what you just claimed, I have to assume you aren't being accurate. In fact, I would say you are just making it up.
I have never once heard of a hagwon paying out money because they chose to fire a teacher. In fact, they have every right to give 30 days notice. It could be simply because they want to downsize and don't have the funds available to pay a teacher anymore. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| YTMND wrote: |
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| YTstrawMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
The "harrassment" and the wrongful dismissal are two seperate issues.
If the OP was terminated then he should have received a letter of termination. SCHOOLS DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THESE! The letter must provide a reason (just cause) for dismissal. |
So, you would rather live with an abusive spouse. Well, I wouldn't.
If things aren't working out, give me the letter of release, and I will happily move on. Filing some kind of harassment suit would be laughed at. You won't get anything and waste time in the pursuit. |
Bold #1: strawman BS.
Bold #2: "harrassment lawsuit"? What are you talking about? I said he should sue for wrongful dismissal, if he was terminated without just cause. A favorable judgement could mean re-instatement, but usually it's a cash settlement.
If the OP is fine with moving on, this thread wouldn't exist. I don't blame him for being upset. |
You just cancelled your first point with your second.
If it's not harassment, then you are saying someone should stay with a company when they wrongfully dismiss them? Why would you want to continue working with them? If you don't like the spouse analogy pretend someone punches you or stabs you in the back. Are you really going to continue as if nothing happened? Business as usual? You must be one catatonic robot to want to go back to the abuse (hence the spouse analogy).
You said usually people get a cash settlement instead of "re-instatement". How many cases have you exactly witnessed or have records of to come to this conclusion. Until I see proof of what you just claimed, I have to assume you aren't being accurate. In fact, I would say you are just making it up.
I have never once heard of a hagwon paying out money because they chose to fire a teacher. In fact, they have every right to give 30 days notice. It could be simply because they want to downsize and don't have the funds available to pay a teacher anymore. |
It really doesn't matter what I say here, because anyone would, and should be, skeptical of what others claim on Dave's. That's why I keep telling the OP of this thread (and others) to contact a labor lawyer.
| Quote: |
| I have never once heard of a hagwon paying out money because they chose to fire a teacher. |
Well... I don't know how long you've been in Korea, but it happens. Not a whole lot, because foreigners let themselves get walked over so much. But, it happens. Read the sticky at the top of this forum, "How to legally hammer your boss into submission". There are a couple cases mentioned in that thread.
Read this post by attorney Brendan Carr (from a couple years ago):
| Quote: |
- The labor tribunal's only remedy for wrongful termination is reinstatement with back wages and interest. (The tribunal can also award unpaid wages and claims for 30 days' notice pay.) If the employer has wrongfully terminated, the employee is put back in the position he or she would have been had the employer not wrongfully terminated.
- If terminated with three (3) months left on a 12-month contract and the dispute takes three (3) months or longer to be resolved in favor of the employee, the maximum damages the employee could receive would be the three (3) months' wages yet to be earned plus the benefits which would accrue upon completion of the contract. But the employer would have the right to require work if there is time remaining on the contract when the employee is reinstated (for example, as would be the case where the dispute is resolved in two (2) months, leaving a month on the contract). The employee cannot refuse to work and expect to be paid the balance of the contract. If there are benefits dependent on the completion of the contract (i.e., severance pay, reimbursement for airfare, etc.), and the employee chooses not to complete the contract, the employee cannot claim those benefits.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2153009 |
In a particular case that I was involved with in 2004, the teacher was offered reinstatement, or 10 million in lieu. Of course you may not believe that, but I'm sure you've been in Korea long enough that you could imagine the "face" that would be lost by the Wanjangnim if the teacher returned. 10 million won is apparently the price for that particular Wanjang to keep face.
| Quote: |
| Until I see proof of what you just claimed, I have to assume you aren't being accurate. In fact, I would say you are just making it up. |
Well, I don't blame for being skeptical. You should be. But, if you (or any other teacher) don't believe that cash settlements can be won from a hagwan re: wrongful dismissal, contact a labor lawyer. I'll even pm you the number after I post this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
