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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't help but feel that "The God Particle" is a terrible, terrible name that will do nothing but cause controversy and bring all the nut-job, anti-intellectuals crawling out of the woodwork. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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last I checked they've been out of the woodwork for some time now 
fyi, the only reason I even bothered to use it in this post was because it's being used that way in the media, and sad to say, far too few people have even the basic understanding of what this research is about and why it's even important.
it is most unfortunate that it might be necessary to mention "the god particle" in this context but at least some individuals will make the effort to understand what's being discussed.
Last edited by luckylady on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
last I checked they've been out of the woodwork for some time now
fyi, the only reason I even bothered to use it in this post was because it's being used that way in the media, and sad to say, far too many people have even the basic understanding of what this research is about and why it's even important.
it is most unfortunate that it might be necessary to mention "the god particle" in this context but at least some individuals will make the effort to understand what's being discussed. |
You meant "far too few"?
Why should I care about this research? I've got a life to live here. Places to go, people to see. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
last I checked they've been out of the woodwork for some time now
fyi, the only reason I even bothered to use it in this post was because it's being used that way in the media, and sad to say, far too many people have even the basic understanding of what this research is about and why it's even important.
it is most unfortunate that it might be necessary to mention "the god particle" in this context but at least some individuals will make the effort to understand what's being discussed. |
You meant "far too few"?
Why should I care about this research? I've got a life to live here. Places to go, people to see. |
ah yes, far too few (corrected now) thank you for that.
as to why you should care: because it gives substance to your very presence in this world as well as all of us and everything around us. this is truly one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time and you are alive and present when it happened. share that with the people you see and the places you go
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| as to why you should care: because it gives substance to your very presence in this world as well as all of us and everything around us. |
Do you mean literal substance? Or are you speaking more from existentialism? If the latter, I would think "God is dead" would apply equally as well to "the God particle is dead". |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
last I checked they've been out of the woodwork for some time now
fyi, the only reason I even bothered to use it in this post was because it's being used that way in the media, and sad to say, far too many people have even the basic understanding of what this research is about and why it's even important.
it is most unfortunate that it might be necessary to mention "the god particle" in this context but at least some individuals will make the effort to understand what's being discussed. |
You meant "far too few"?
Why should I care about this research? I've got a life to live here. Places to go, people to see. |
ah yes, far too few (corrected now) thank you for that.
as to why you should care: because it gives substance to your very presence in this world as well as all of us and everything around us. this is truly one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time and you are alive and present when it happened. share that with the people you see and the places you go
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He's right though, this discovery doesn't change our day-to-day lives one iota. How can they apply this discovery to make our lives better? Although it is supposedly the most profound discovery of our generation the thing isn't as appealing as the new iphone or ipad. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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providing new information which forwards the understanding of matter itself is very significant.
no one ever said this would "make life better" and that is not the fundamental purpose of basic research and/or why it's done and/or why it's important
there are rarely, if ever, immediate links to how a scientific discovery relates to one's daily life simply because discoveries impact from that moment forward - to the future - |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
Do you mean literal substance?Or are you speaking more from existentialism? |
ha ha good one. both.
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| If the latter, I would think "God is dead" would apply equally as well to "the God particle is dead". |
when you mean "the god particle is dead" are you referring to the fact that because it exists, it can no longer be attributed to "god?" altho I'm sure some will certainly try.
or the fact that the search is over since it's been confirmed? |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm reminded of the Douglas Adams bit where God disproves his own existence.
Anyone read Greg Egan's "Distress"? Good book. Pertinent to this discussion. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| Titus wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
last I checked they've been out of the woodwork for some time now
fyi, the only reason I even bothered to use it in this post was because it's being used that way in the media, and sad to say, far too many people have even the basic understanding of what this research is about and why it's even important.
it is most unfortunate that it might be necessary to mention "the god particle" in this context but at least some individuals will make the effort to understand what's being discussed. |
You meant "far too few"?
Why should I care about this research? I've got a life to live here. Places to go, people to see. |
ah yes, far too few (corrected now) thank you for that.
as to why you should care: because it gives substance to your very presence in this world as well as all of us and everything around us. this is truly one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time and you are alive and present when it happened. share that with the people you see and the places you go
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He's right though, this discovery doesn't change our day-to-day lives one iota. How can they apply this discovery to make our lives better? Although it is supposedly the most profound discovery of our generation the thing isn't as appealing as the new iphone or ipad. |
Two vastly different mindsets are at work here. One prizes knowledge as an end in itself. The other is intrinsically hedonistic, and treasures knowledge purely and only to the extent that it can lead to desirable personal circumstances. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't some merit the concept of something like the Hindu caste system, assuming it's stripped of heredity and focuses purely on inborn character. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm positive Titus's perspective isn't hedonistic. He's an anti-atomist. Indeed, loving the pursuit of knowledge in itself is more hedonistic, in the classical derivation of the term, than Titus's weltanschauung.
Anyway, Titus's perspective may already be winning even among physicists.
| Stephen Wolfram wrote: |
It's been 35 years, and when it comes to new particles and the like, there really hasn't been a single surprise. (The discovery of neutrino masses is a partial counterexample, as are various discoveries in cosmology.) Experiments have certainly discovered things--the W and Z bosons, the validity of QCD, the top quark. But all of them were as expected from the Standard Model; there were no surprises.
At some level I'm actually a little disappointed. I've made no secret--even to Peter Higgs--that I've never especially liked the Higgs mechanism. It's always seemed like a hack. And I've always hoped that in the end there'd be something more elegant and deep responsible for something as fundamental as the masses of particles. But it appears that nature is just picking what seems like a pedestrian solution to the problem: the Higgs mechanism in the Standard Model...
If the Standard Model is correct, yesterday's announcement is likely to be the last major discovery that could be made in a particle accelerator in our generation. Now, of course, there could be surprises, but it's not clear how much one should bet on them. |
I'm rather neutral on the whole debate. Except, the closer we get to putting aside the mental masturbation of String Theory the better. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| I'm positive Titus's perspective isn't hedonistic. |
If he is who I think he is, then he's always struck me as a pragmatic hedonist, though I doubt he'd describe himself that way. The same for recessiontime, minus the pragmatism perhaps.
| Kuros wrote: |
| Indeed, loving the pursuit of knowledge in itself is more hedonistic ... |
This is a slippery slope into a total destruction of any meaning the term in question might have, unless you're prepared to argue that the acquisition and possession of knowledge is intrinsically pleasurable, a proposition which is fairly easy to disprove through simple experience, and part of why the Epicurean world view is so dubious. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Indeed, loving the pursuit of knowledge in itself is more hedonistic ... |
This is a slippery slope into a total destruction of any meaning the term in question might have, unless you're prepared to argue that the acquisition and possession of knowledge is intrinsically pleasurable, a proposition which is fairly easy to disprove through simple experience, and part of why the Epicurean world view is so dubious. |
Yes, something like this. But the kind of knowledge involved here. Knowledge of suffering, obviously, does not confer pleasure. Knowledge of what color the next turtle on down appears to be? That could definitely bring a kind of pleasure.
Meanwhile, when Plato talked of loving knowledge for its own sake, I don't think he meant particle physics. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| I can't help but feel that "The God Particle" is a terrible, terrible name that will do nothing but cause controversy and bring all the nut-job, anti-intellectuals crawling out of the woodwork. |
And I cannot but feel to agree with your feelings on the matter.
The media calls it the GOD particle, no scientist does. |
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