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brauggi
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: comma question |
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I know the comma belongs here. I've found the same construction in too many reliable places to doubt my comma. Why do I put this comma here?
Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoons, usually while drinking a cup of tea.
In this or any other contruction like it, I was thinking that it might be an independent clause/dependent clause thing (e.g. While drinking a cup of tea, Jenny likes to read a book), but in this case the dependent clause is second, so that doesn't apply. Why do I put the comma before 'usually'? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I think "usually while" is strange.
I think a different construction could be:
"Usually, Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoon(s?) while drinking a cup of tea."
I think the idea of a comma comes into play when we use "usually".
Also, I would change "afternoons" to "afternoon" because it seems like the sentence is meaning to state something Jenny does in a day as opposed to something weekly or monthly. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| The comma is out of style. Readers don't like to have to be forced to pause while reading. They want to read more conversationally and naturally. When if possible, throw the "rule book" out and nix the comma. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| The comma is out of style. Readers don't like to have to be forced to pause while reading. They want to read more conversationally and naturally. When if possible, throw the "rule book" out and nix the comma. |
Well, there you have it.
The comma is out of style.
Thanks for the heads up on that...but mostly thanks for the laugh. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: Re: comma question |
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| brauggi wrote: |
I know the comma belongs here. I've found the same construction in too many reliable places to doubt my comma. Why do I put this comma here?
Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoons, usually while drinking a cup of tea.
In this or any other contruction like it, I was thinking that it might be an independent clause/dependent clause thing (e.g. While drinking a cup of tea, Jenny likes to read a book), but in this case the dependent clause is second, so that doesn't apply. Why do I put the comma before 'usually'? |
Good question.
You are pretty close on the DC, IC thinking.
Except that it isn't strictly a complex sentence.
The independent clause
Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoons...correct.
usually while drinking tea...not a dependent clause...just a phrase.
Specifically....a reduced adverbial clause....now a participial phrase.
Anyway...I know that isn't your point...either way it gets punctuated the same.
This is akin to restrictive and non-restrictive clauses...only with phrases.
Added information that is not necessary...gets set apart by the use of a comma.
So with 'usually'...'usually' is introducing a 'tag' comment/phrase.
They are commonly referred to as tag commas.
(often used with adverbs of frequency)
Hope this is useful. |
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Pablo
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: Re: comma question |
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| brauggi wrote: |
| Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoons, usually while drinking a cup of tea. |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Usually, Jenny likes to read a book in the afternoon(s?) while drinking a cup of tea. |
I don't think these two sentences mean/imply the same thing. The first sentence implies that Jenny (always) likes to read a book in the afternoon (whether she is actually able to or not), and that she usually (but not always) drinks a cup of tea when doing so.
The second sentence implies that Jenny usually (but not always) likes to read a book in the afternoon, and that when doing so she (always) drinks a cup of tea.
Personally I *would* put the comma in the first sentence, because the second part is a non-essential, additional thought. Also it is natural for the voice to pause there.
Personally I *would not* put a comma in the second sentence after "Usually" (or elsewhere), because the voice does not need to pause there and it usually doesn't pause there.
Just my 2 won. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The first sentence implies that Jenny (always) likes to read a book |
That's like saying, "I like blue better than red."
I am not actually using some ability to like blue more than red or another person. What I am communicating is that I prefer. Same in this case. It is not stating she always likes anything.
I like ice cream, does that mean I always buy one when I pass the ice cream shop? No.
| Quote: |
| and that when doing so she (always) drinks a cup of tea. |
I disagree. The "always" is not implied. It is dictated by the "usually" that starts the sentence. I didn't put a comma because I read it as a whole sentence, not 2 separate parts.
| Quote: |
| Personally I *would not* put a comma in the second sentence after "Usually" |
3 for 3, we are at opposites I guess. I put commas for:
1. Sometimes, ...........
2. Usually, ..............
3. When ________, ..............
Look at number 2 at the following site,
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/verbs1.htm |
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