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Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do?
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burnt_out_in_seoul



Joined: 19 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do? Reply with quote

I want to tell you my story and ask for advice on what I should do about what happened to me at this hogwon.
I was looking for a full-time job that would get me an E2 visa. I met a seemingly nice hogwon owner who said that he had an urgent need for a teacher immediately. I told him that it was illegal, but he said he would start working on my visa and get me legal within a few months; he was opening up a second school.
I started teaching at his school the following week. Right away there were problems. The Team Leader began trying to call me between 11:30pm and 2:30 a.m. to tell me of changes to the next day's schedule. Apparently, this was common for him to do. But as I live in a basement, it was hard for me to get a signal down there. The next mornings on the way to school, I would begin receiving signals to the phone and there would be invariably 5 or 6 frantic messages from one of the Korean teachers in the middle of the previous night begging me to call regarding changes to the schedule.
Get to school and they are angry at me for not answering their nocturnal calls. I told them I don�t get signals in the basement, and they insisted that I give them my girlfriend's phone number so they can call anytime.
They had me working 9a.m. to 9p.m. some days with two 1/2 hour breaks in between. If a student was going to be late for, say a 10a.m. class, I had to teach them whenever they got to school for the full 2 hour class, even if i missed lunch.
They put me in classes where I didn�t know what I was to teach and who the students were. I was told 10 minutes before one class that it was a debate class. I told them I had no experience teaching debate and no materials. The Korean teacher talked down to me, asking me if I was not resourceful and couldn't I find materials on Google in less than 10 minutes.
I went to a TOEIC class and most of the students had no books. I excused myself and asked the hogwon owner where the students� books were and how could I teach the class without books. He looked at me with a hateful look and didn�t answer. The Korean teacher told me to make copies for the students, which I did. Several parents called to complain that I wasted class time making copies and the Team Leader told the parents that he would stop me from doing that. This made me look bad in front of the parents, who were not told that it was impossible to teach TOEIC without the materials.
I was threatened with getting fired several times without pay.
They ended up telling me not to come in at the end of the month. They paid me what they promised. They just wanted some white face to teach the kids before school started and also before the Korean-American kids left for the States.
I want to contact immigration on this. I want something done to this evil hogwon owner. He lied to me and lied to the students and students' parents. What can I do legally to get back at this hogwon without getting myself in trouble? I was looking for an E2 visa, but ended up just being tricked into teaching illegally for a month.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do? Reply with quote

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:
I told him that it was illegal, but he said he would start working on my visa and get me legal within a few months; he was opening up a second school.
I started teaching at his school the following week. Right away there were problems.

... I was looking for an E2 visa, but ended up just being tricked into teaching illegally for a month.


Is this a joke?

You weren't tricked into teaching illegally for month.
You did it knowing full well it was illegal.
You are the problem.

For what it is worth...you were lucky to have been paid at all.
Count your blessings and move on.
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Keeper



Joined: 11 Jun 2012

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a bit like someone saying they paid for pot but it turned out to be oregano. Now they want the police to right the wrong.

Sorry this episode happened to you but there is nothing you can get but in trouble with Kimmi if they find out about it. I agree that you need to move on now and next time do things legally or deal with the problems which may arise by yourself.
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Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I' ve had my own issues with a hagwon but in this case I would say chalk it down to experience and move on. You got the money, use that to set yourself up for a decent job and move on.

It's not worth the hassle of going to immi, possibly paying a fine and then having a bad rep in your town (I'm assuming you are going to stay there and look for more work).

Yeah it stinks, but better to move on imo.
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burnt_out_in_seoul



Joined: 19 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it isn;t a joke. And many people work a short time while the school gets the papers in order; it is a grey area.
I'd really like to burn this guy. No ideas?
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:
No, it isn;t a joke. And many people work a short time while the school gets the papers in order; it is a grey area.
I'd really like to burn this guy. No ideas?




There is no way to burn this guy without burning yourself in the process. BOTH of you are complicit. No it is not a "grey area". Korean work visa laws are fairly clear on this point. As a foreigner you need a visa to work/live/study here. It is just that simple. Yes many people work a short time while the school gets the papers in order...but it is still illegal until you have that visa.



Move on. Don't unnecessarily complicate your life. Both of you have dirt on the other.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Team Leader began trying to call me between 11:30pm and 2:30 a.m. to tell me of changes to the next day's schedule.


If it is a TOEIC class, you probably start in the afternoon, right? Or, I should say started. I assume you have completely left them by now.

So, tell any future school they should contact you once and only once in the morning before lunch regarding changes. Then you will do the responsible thing and come to school after lunch and prepare for the changes.

I go a step further and tell the school no phone calls, email only. Your choice.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:
No, it isn;t a joke. And many people work a short time while the school gets the papers in order; it is a grey area.
I'd really like to burn this guy. No ideas?


YOU accepted to work illegally. That was YOUR choice. Now you are unhappy with the result and want to "burn" the guy who hired you? Well go ahead and do it, you can report him to Kimmi! However, I would pack a suitcase and get some money ready to pay the fine you will get and to have your stuff ready when they deport you for working illegally.

OR

Consider this a lesson learned. Like Urban said there is no "grey area". You are either legal (on a work visa) or you are not. Next time, stick to your guns and do not accept any job without having your visa in hand when you start working. All very simple.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sucks, and I'm sure a lot of people here can relate; they having also been in crappy jobs before. That's life, don't dwell on it. Move on, better things will come your way if you look for them.

Also you'll probably have equally or more sucky experiences in the future. **** happens. Such is life. You are one part of the richest and most educated populace in history. Just count your blessings.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do? Reply with quote

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

I was looking for a full-time job that would get me an E2 visa. I met a seemingly nice hogwon owner who said that he had an urgent need for a teacher immediately. I told him that it was illegal, but he said he would start working on my visa and get me legal within a few months; he was opening up a second school.
I started teaching at his school the following week. Right away there were problems. The Team Leader began trying to call me between 11:30pm and 2:30 a.m. to tell me of changes to the next day's schedule.


Same thing happened to me. I resisted working illegally for weeks but then gave in because there was no other work around.

They started calling me at midnight too and taking all kinds of liberties. Thats what they do when they know they have you by the balls.

You were lucky though, you got paid. I got taken for 2.5M.
Ultimately I had to give up trying to burn them because they had too much on me.


Moral of the story is, never never work without a visa unless you are maybe homeless on the street. They will take advantage of you as soon as they sense they can.
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick it out until you find another school that is willing to hire you, simple as that. You're working for a shady hagwon. Make sure you keep your CBC documents up to date and apostilled, which might be difficult while you are in Korea. Also I hope you have a diploma copy notarized and with an apostille. Because you won't be getting any legitimate jobs if you don't have those.
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Otherside



Joined: 06 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is it you want to do exactly?

Wanna report them for an immigration violation... well as you said, it's a grey area. Either it's a grey area, and you have nothing, or it's illegal, and you are equally complicit... Which one is it?

As you said, you were happy to work for a few months while they sorted out the visa, so your problem is not with the visa issue, rather you want to report them for being a poorly run hagwon. Why don't you go to the police and say that your boss tried to call you in the middle of the night, you didn't get the call, then he shouted at you in the morning... perhaps you can lay charges for.....
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do? Reply with quote

look down

Last edited by Skippy on Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Promise of a visa, reality was hell. What should I do? Reply with quote

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:
I want to tell you my story and ask for advice on what I should do about what happened to me at this hogwon.
I was looking for a full-time job that would get me an E2 visa. I met a seemingly nice hogwon owner who said that he had an urgent need for a teacher immediately. I told him that it was illegal, but he said he would start working on my visa and get me legal within a few months; he was opening up a second school.

First mistake and warning sign. A couple MONTHS!. Okay I can understand bending the rules and do a week or two before being sent on a visa trip. IT happens it is common, odds of getting caught are slim. Yet this guy said months. The guy does not need more then A MONTH to get a visa organized. Months to me means this employer is not a least bit bit f*cked to try and work with me to be legal. If he can not get off his ass in under a MONTH, he will be just as worse in everything else from pay to apartment.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

I started teaching at his school the following week. Right away there were problems. The Team Leader began trying to call me between 11:30pm and 2:30 a.m. to tell me of changes to the next day's schedule.

Second warning sign.... Really! I could understand once in a while call. Yet any call past midnight to me has to be an emergency.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

Apparently, this was common for him to do. But as I live in a basement, it was hard for me to get a signal down there.

Why do you live in the basement? Was it provided by the school? If so that would be warning three. Basement apartments are uncommon here and are really the worst of the bunch.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

The next mornings on the way to school, I would begin receiving signals to the phone and there would be invariably 5 or 6 frantic messages from one of the Korean teachers in the middle of the previous night begging me to call regarding changes to the schedule.

IF this is a common occurrence, this means a really really badly run school. Changes happen.... Just not this often.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

Get to school and they are angry at me for not answering their nocturnal calls. I told them I don�t get signals in the basement, and they insisted that I give them my girlfriend's phone number so they can call anytime.

I hope you didn't. You do need to build a firewall between work and private life. These demands reek of control. Once again why do you put up with harassment.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

They had me working 9a.m. to 9p.m. some days with two 1/2 hour breaks in between. If a student was going to be late for, say a 10a.m. class, I had to teach them whenever they got to school for the full 2 hour class, even if i missed lunch.

It is up to you to accept this or not. I just hope you understood this was the routine before you started. Plus I hope are keeping track of you work hours.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

They put me in classes where I didn�t know what I was to teach and who the students were. I was told 10 minutes before one class that it was a debate class. I told them I had no experience teaching debate and no materials. The Korean teacher talked down to me, asking me if I was not resourceful and couldn't I find materials on Google in less than 10 minutes.

Quite a common practice in Korea. You have to learn to wing it and/or have a good bunch of resources you can use at a moments notice.

I went to a TOEIC class and most of the students had no books. I excused myself and asked the hogwon owner where the students� books were and how could I teach the class without books. He looked at me with a hateful look and didn�t answer. The Korean teacher told me to make copies for the students, which I did. Several parents called to complain that I wasted class time making copies and the Team Leader told the parents that he would stop me from doing that. This made me look bad in front of the parents, who were not told that it was impossible to teach TOEIC without the materials.


burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

I was threatened with getting fired several times without pay.

Warning number four. If a school regularly threaten firing for flimsy reasons. It means they will very likely fire you soon. Or are completely unreasonable. Why continue to work with a person who you are helping by working illegally. At a certain number of threats, I would either quit or ask them to actually do it.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

They ended up telling me not to come in at the end of the month.


Quel surprise! After threatening to fire you, they actually did it. Wow, I did not see that coming.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

They paid me what they promised.

You are lucky, many people do not even get this after being screwed just like you.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

They just wanted some white face to teach the kids before school started and also before the Korean-American kids left for the States.

Wow, sounds like most hagwons in one for or another.

burnt_out_in_seoul wrote:

I want to contact immigration on this. I want something done to this evil hogwon owner. He lied to me and lied to the students and students' parents. What can I do legally to get back at this hogwon without getting myself in trouble? I was looking for an E2 visa, but ended up just being tricked into teaching illegally for a month.


Unless you want to turn yourself in, I would not do it. Maybe consider reporting when you leave Korea for good. Still how to do that, I do not know. There is not really a 1-800-bad-hgwon number.
If you want revenge my advice is name and shame the school. Find any black list you can and air your story on them.
Also consider, popping by the school entrance once in a while to give the next teacher a heads up.

Overall man, walk away and hope you learned something from this.


Last edited by Skippy on Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Juregen



Joined: 30 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to labour board.

End of.
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