Korean Job Discussion Forums

[darkpoet]

Okay, so here it is plain and simple: I have some serious poblems with maintaining control in my elementary school classes. Mostly actually with one particular class of 6 (aged 7-10) boys. Sure, I know, it's not even a big class...

I've never had TESOL training or whatever and being from Canada, I'm not quite used to the "way" that Korean need (re: are used to) being punished. I don't like physical punishment and the entire hands-above-your-head thing seems a little ineffective.

I've tried the 3-strikes rule using positive and negative reinforcement (x's for bad behaviour and o's for good - which an cancel each other out)... and I hand out candy of a bit of change to students who have a good number of o's in my book (I collect them day-to-day)... this works with my other classes but all 6 of these boys are just damn unruly. They can't go 5 minutes before class without one of them trying to kill another... and in class, they'll taunt each other until one of them just can't take it anymore...

I think the biggest problem is the fact that when they do taunt and fight, it's in Korean... Is enforcing English-only the best way to control a class like this?

Any suggestions are appreciated. Why? Because my Director says I will be fired if I can't keep them quiet during class.

Sidenote: she also said, controlling them is more important than learning... it makes me feel like a glorified babysitter but it's probably true in this damn Hogwan system... *&%$! (stifling rant for now)

[Grotto]

Methods that work for me.

The icy silent stare .

Stand in corner with hands up.....if you laugh at the one with hands up you get to join him holding a chair up

Get out I had one student that was rude, ignored me and downright a little poop I told him to get out....threw his book, bookbag and papers out in the hallway and told him he couldnt come back without his parent. Showed up the next day with his mom and was well behaved for the rest of the year.

The empty 1.5 liter coke bottle(plastic) Makes an impressive noise when slammed against a table or the troublemakers head.

Seating arrangement.....nobody sits near anyone else...any misbehaviour you send them out to the director. If you dont feel like disciplining them let her do it..its her job

[VanIslander]

Here's a few suggestions of things that've successfully worked for me over the last year and a half of teaching elementary kids in a hagwon:

Entertain and educate them. It sounds easy but it's hardest thing I've ever done and it takes blood, sweat and tears on a daily basis.

Keep them busy doing things, speaking, exercise sheets, reading, review games, whatever... and keep their feet to the fire.

You chose where they sit and don't waiver for a moment in your judgement, even when you realize you are wrong (especially when you are wrong).

Find the alpha males, there's always one or two who are the leaders, which aren't always the most vocal or active ones... and reward them more and penalize them.

Threaten to kiss them or hug them, anything to embarass them. Punishment doesn't work half as well as peer pressure: use it.

Have goodies and not so goodies, and only distribute the better ones to half the class (establish a point system and be consistent with it).

Put an extra hour of prep time into that class and ensure that every minute is accounted for. If some students work quicker, have other things for them to work on rather than distract the slower students (like a puzzle).

Let certain students know that if they fall behind they may be kept later for a minute or two (long enough to matter to the students who like to bolt after class).

And yes, English only in the classroom is a good policy, needing teeth: minus points for excessive Korean chatter.

Play with them more, even design lessons where they have to think and guess answers, spell words or other learning activities.

Good luck whatever!

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Fire. Lots of fire. And red-hot pokers. Fire, red-hot pokers and...show tunes. Lots of show tunes...

[captain kirk]

I had a pretty cool time with a kid today. His name is Ruhn Bin and he's kind of runty, 8, with rashes on his legs and arms (allergies). I didn't take much notice of him since he'd get pretty annoying making weird sounds just to get my goat when I'd locate the nonsensical source. He also NEVER has a pencil. So I tell him to go to the wjn and when he returns he pushes too hard and then needs to go get it sharpened. Which sharpens my consternation. He's a low self-esteen kid looking for that negative attention like another kid, John. After six months at this school I'm getting around to noticing these kids I ignored until now. But I always got them to sit up front with me so they aren't in the back cutting up like a spreading virus. So I can keep an eye on 'em.
What's the problem with the old getting them to stand arms up in the corner. Works for us. Standard procedure, it's no shock to them. I've heard from kids the usual duration is ten minutes. I threaten to get them standing arms up, which is good. Sometimes some guy is allowed to sit down as another is ordered to stand up so it's like 'musical chairs'. Change of seasons, more light, 'summer energy'. Or sports day or whatever.
If some kid is being offensive I think most people would opt as teachers to take care of the offense. The threat is some resentment may build up in the teacher's mind about the transgression or insult causing the teacher to bear a grudge and flare up later. Then it could happen that the kids are seeing this surge of 'unreasonable anger' and call foul.
The kids can be offensive. I say 'I'm the teacher and you're the student' and 'this is not studying English' to assert in my own mind and those of the other students that something's amiss, so we know why so and so is heading to the wall to stand with his arms up.
It's not easy, but somehow hangs together. Resilience of teacher and resilence of kids.

[waterbaby]

Excellent advice there from VanIslander.

I struggled with a class of similarly aged boys who were boisterous and uncontrollalbe. I dreaded the class because it was such hard work. then I stumbled across a book, Teaching English to Children in Asia - by David Paul and it changed my teaching life!!! It's all about developing child centred lessons where the kids discover english through fun activities. I highly recommend it, if you can get your hands on it.

My classes always started with a fun game or activity, in fact, everything was turned into a game... boys vs girls (in this class), I used a dice and the students would roll to see who would read or do the activity next, kids were moving around the room doing different activities... it soon became my best class and these kids progressed so much

As far as rewards went, I set up a sticker board and would give them stickers for good behaviour, take stickers away for bad behaviour. Once they reached a target (eg 300) they'd get a pizza party.

I really believe there's a key in every class, no matter how bad they are and you can turn things around. A bit of experimentation and you'll find that key that motivates and interests them.

Good luck!

BTW - What books are you teaching?


Also... These older threads might offer useful advice.

Discipline and Class Control

1. Controlling Anger... Oh Those Kids!
2. High School Students - Control & Teaching Methods
3. How To Handle Difficult Students

[PEIGUY]

[jajdude]

I have a few boys as well that I've decided are incapable of paying attention or focusing on the classwork. Mostly I ignore them now and try to teach the brighter ones. Keeps me a bit saner. Sometimes I get pissed at them. But when little John or Sam, who are 10 in Korean age, act like 4 or 5 in any age, I figure I am not here to teach kindergarten!

[Happamitta]

Nice list of postings here.. where can I find a copy of 'Teaching English to Children in Asia - by David Paul' though? I haven't seen it on any web site, nor Amazon, nor Kyobo books. How can I snag this title?

[darkpoet]

Waterbaby: thanks for the links to the previous threads... I tried searching before posting but I never found those excellent threads... and they do contain some excellent advice and some stern warnings of what NOT to do... because even if I am not a "real" teacher... I still teach for real.

My girlfriend did give me one piece of advice I might as well share. Think about the money... not your paycheck but what the parents pay. I am paid by them NOT the children... if the children don't care that they are wasting time, their parents WILL care that they are wasting money.

And I do remember one science teacher I had in junior high. He walked lightly and carried a big stick... well, a metre-stick, that is. A big ruler covered in masking tape that sounded like a gunshot when we whacked it on a desk. And he never put it down for longer than a minute... almost as a warning. Especially when he was cracking jokes (whih he did often)... made the class funny but when things got outta hand... *BOOM* down comes the stick and we knew we were in for extra homework...

Anyways, I digress but I think the important thing I learned is that good students should be rewarded and trouble-makers punished... and do both in such an obvious, public, and indiscriminate way that the students will either respect or fear you...

Silence is golden.

[ryleeys]

The more I teach, the more totalitarian I become in a classroom.

Especially the last few months, with the surge of kindergarteners and unruly new students. I have a child standing in the corner holding books nearly nonstop. Usually when I put them there, they laugh about it and so I start adding books. Every 10 seconds that you're still laughing is another book on top. I strictly enforce discipline outside my classroom now. The kindies come in about 30 minutes before the first class and were running around like crazy. One day I walked into the classroom they were in, dropped my voice a few octaves and at the top of my lungs, yelled for them to sit down and shut up... that if I heard a single noise in any language the rest of the day, they would all be held 5 hours after class. Now, at the end of class, I make them line up and walk with me quietly down the hallway until they're outside. If anyone talks during this, I make them do it again. If anyone talks or steps one foot out of line the second time, they stay an hour and write sentences while I teach my next class.

Honestly, teaching here has brought out the old wrestling coach in me. The first students I had here were good kids that I could just enjoy the time with and things were natural. But these new kids are too out of control and need some damn discipline in their life. Like I said in other threads, it's not a successful day teaching for me unless a kid cries.

The times I got the angriest were when the kids went through a phase of punching me in the balls. That really pushed me over the deep end for a week. Also, one day in my class they were just completely ignorning my attempts at teaching and discipline, so I picked up a desk that one kid was writing and drawing offensive pictures on and threw it sliding across the floor. That got their attention.

Amazingly enough, the vast majority of my students really like me. I am a terror when I'm pissed, but I'm far nicer than any other adult they know when they please me... They're slowly learning how I expect things to be done.

[waterbaby]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[livinginkorea]

A elementary kid threw a pencil at me before and it just missed my eye, hitting my cheek. All the students laughed (of course) but I got really angry. I threw the kid out of class and had him knee down in front of the boss/secretary with his hands up.

After the class, about 30 minutes after he threw the pencil, he was still there and I told him that he could go to class now. He said no teacher. I said you can go, it's okay and your finished. He stayed there for about an hour and a half all togther. Maybe it was to show that he was stronger than me? That no punishment could beat him?

Anyway, he's father was the bus driver so to avoid any complications I told him what happened and he apoligised and I know that the kid got a whipping!! Sorry kid

However he hasn't been too bad since.

[sistersarah]

i think a lot of students see us waygook teachers as somehow unreal.....like, they're thinking, what are you doing here? what are you saying??? --they naturally think we're very strange.

i have found that it has really helped all my classes to open up to them myself. i tell them often about my family and friends, little stories about canada, i show them pictures of my house, my dog, etc. it really helped some disinterested classes warm up to me. they're very curioius about me and are always asking me questions. and then, i get to know them.....ask them many questions, even write on the board interesting things, like johnny has 2 sisters, peter has been to new zealand, etc. it really gets them talking, and of course, builds a relationship.

might not solve discipline problems, but might help a bit