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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:20 am Post subject: Job Prospects for an M.A. with 5 years Korean experience |
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Hey folks,
I have been out of Korea for about two and a half years, working on a PhD in English. I am planning on coming back and finishing my degree in Korea. I found out today that I can finish on part time abroad status, Skype my advisor meetings.
I have been looking at the job boards. I don't see very many university positions, though I guess this isn't the season. I want to come back in July/August. Can anyone tell me what the job market is like? My last job was a uni, E-1 visa. I have an M.A., will have a PhD in 2015. Thanks. |
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ren546
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Your situation is very similar to mine. Depending on how reputable your program is, this is actually a very good time for you to be looking for jobs here. That said, there are a lot of ABDs and PhDs coming here now, since the job market is still pretty tight back home (as you likely already know), so competition might be stiff.
The only clincher is that you will very likely need to be in Korea for the interview process.
Otherwise, keep checking until May (or even later). Something will come up. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I will keep checking. Thanks, Ren. If any of my old homeys are reading this, please PM me.
| ren546 wrote: |
Your situation is very similar to mine. Depending on how reputable your program is, this is actually a very good time for you to be looking for jobs here. That said, there are a lot of ABDs and PhDs coming here now, since the job market is still pretty tight back home (as you likely already know), so competition might be stiff.
The only clincher is that you will very likely need to be in Korea for the interview process.
Otherwise, keep checking until May (or even later). Something will come up. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The demand has moved from English MA's to people who can teach business and engineering. Most of the good English department jobs are taken by Koreans with PHDs. There is a massive demand for English lecturers in specific subjects. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? I can teach several other subjects.
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
| The demand has moved from English MA's to people who can teach business and engineering. Most of the good English department jobs are taken by Koreans with PHDs. There is a massive demand for English lecturers in specific subjects. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
| I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? |
Trevor,
You're doing well but I suggest that you remove the Ph.D from your CV. Universities in Korea don't hire foreigners with doctorates to teach in their English language programs. It is likely to work against you if leave that on your resume. |
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ren546
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? |
Trevor,
You're doing well but I suggest that you remove the Ph.D from your CV. Universities in Korea don't hire foreigners with doctorates to teach in their English language programs. It is likely to work against you if leave that on your resume. |
WRONG, especially these days. Leave it in. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? |
Trevor,
You're doing well but I suggest that you remove the Ph.D from your CV. Universities in Korea don't hire foreigners with doctorates to teach in their English language programs. It is likely to work against you if leave that on your resume. |
Horrible advice (sorry). Leave it in, in this market it will actually help you. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sort of a nonissue. I have to leave it in in order to account for my whereabouts for the last three years. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
| Sort of a nonissue. I have to leave it in in order to account for my whereabouts for the last three years. |
Many schools won't even interview someone with a doctorate. Not for the kind of contract or adjunct-like positions that we hold here. I've known a couple of Ph.D holders over the years and they've found it really difficult to even get schools to interview them let alone get hired.
In fact, I've known a couple of universities where applicants hold doctorates weren't even considered and their CVs were sent right into the rubbish bin. You will be painting yourself into a corner and limiting your opportunities with a doctorate in Korea, not increasing them.
Lastly, for the kind of adjunct-like / visiting instructor positions we hold here, schools do not have a salary structure or rank structure for teachers who hold doctorates. That's why 99% of the university job postings here on Dave's ESL Cafe only require a B.A. + x number of years teaching experience or a master's degree. These positions aren't intended for those who have doctorates or who are academics.
The Ph.D holders I've met were paid the same salaries as those with B.A. or M.A. degrees at the universities where they teach. I know a few Ph.D holders in Seoul at well known private and national universities who are regarded in the same way as 20-something B.A. holders and receive the same salaries.
Usually, the Koreans assume that the applicant will want more in terms of compensation and / or a higher rank and to not be subjected to non-renewable contracts. People doing the hiring at universities therefore don't want to deal with it. And since most foreign teachers who act as liaison between Korean staff and foreign teachers only have B.A. or M.A. degrees themselves, they don't want someone with a doctorate coming in and upstaging them or trying to change things. So they, too, have their reasons for not wanting doctorates to get hired. They are perceive as a threat to the little fiefdom that they've created for themselves.
Unless it's a tenure-track position advertised on the Chronicle or the Linguist, etc., that requires a doctorate, don't even put it on your CV. It'll work against you and limit your opportunities. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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IWY actually makes a valid point (not all of it is concrete though). I am from the UK and when I was working at Hongik University (I have an MA), I was interested in teaching a design subject but was told I would need a PhD (am applying to UK universities now for distance-even though I'm back in London next year I want to head back to Seoul after a year).
If you are happy to have an English teaching position, then yes you will be on a similar salary to those with BA's and MA's. A PhD will not advance you in this case. You could leave it on, but nothing will be gained from it financially or getting the job ahead of someone with an MA in TESOL for example.
However, a PhD will land you a well paid position, teaching a specific subject (business and engineering are in demand these days).
I'm not sure if having a PhD on your CV will work against you... anyone had any experience with this?
As for it being a non issue... well that all depends on whether employers do look at this sort of thing in a negative light as IWY suggests.
Ps, IWY... just curious as to how you came to such a conclusion - are you actively involved in the hiring process? or what you've been told by someone who is? |
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ren546
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| Sort of a nonissue. I have to leave it in in order to account for my whereabouts for the last three years. |
Many schools won't even interview someone with a doctorate. Not for the kind of contract or adjunct-like positions that we hold here. I've known a couple of Ph.D holders over the years and they've found it really difficult to even get schools to interview them let alone get hired.
In fact, I've known a couple of universities where applicants hold doctorates weren't even considered and their CVs were sent right into the rubbish bin. You will be painting yourself into a corner and limiting your opportunities with a doctorate in Korea, not increasing them.
Lastly, for the kind of adjunct-like / visiting instructor positions we hold here, schools do not have a salary structure or rank structure for teachers who hold doctorates. That's why 99% of the university job postings here on Dave's ESL Cafe only require a B.A. + x number of years teaching experience or a master's degree. These positions aren't intended for those who have doctorates or who are academics.
The Ph.D holders I've met were paid the same salaries as those with B.A. or M.A. degrees at the universities where they teach. I know a few Ph.D holders in Seoul at well known private and national universities who are regarded in the same way as 20-something B.A. holders and receive the same salaries.
Usually, the Koreans assume that the applicant will want more in terms of compensation and / or a higher rank and to not be subjected to non-renewable contracts. People doing the hiring at universities therefore don't want to deal with it. And since most foreign teachers who act as liaison between Korean staff and foreign teachers only have B.A. or M.A. degrees themselves, they don't want someone with a doctorate coming in and upstaging them or trying to change things. So they, too, have their reasons for not wanting doctorates to get hired. They are perceive as a threat to the little fiefdom that they've created for themselves.
Unless it's a tenure-track position advertised on the Chronicle or the Linguist, etc., that requires a doctorate, don't even put it on your CV. It'll work against you and limit your opportunities. |
I can speak from experience and say that while this may be true for some lower-ranked universities, it most certainly isn't true for the top-ranked ones.
There are a lot of massive changes taking place in the general education division of universities here, and also, on a much broader level, there are a lot of changes taking place in general hiring policies. Some of those changes have been discussed here on Dave's (e.g. some universities are now expecting English "professors" to do research and/or teach more advanced classes in areas of specialization).
I personally have not heard of anyone with a reputable PhD (or ABD) being turned down for a position, "reputable" being the operative word here. Yes, you may be paid the same as an MA if you are only teaching general English classes, and yes, some English Departments might see you as a potential squeaky wheel (for lack of a better term), but at the end of the day, those might not be the kinds of departments that you would want to work for if you are in fact pursuing your PhD.
So Trevor, maybe just do some research into the programs you are applying to, and if possible, look at a list of the current faculty members, their degrees/credentials, and the classes they teach. Then tailor your applications accordingly. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Ren, I speak from experience also, and I need to respond to Cam and IWY because what they are suggesting is puzzlingly incorrect. It is important, I think, for people with long-term career goals in education to have accurate information. A quick look at the job board here provides an excellent snapshot on what sorts of positions seek PhD's and what positions don't. (This is not the best month to look because the semester is just starting).
Also, PhD slots are often transacted by word of mouth, so unlike other sectors of the market, Dave's Job Board is not the only resource for doctoral level employment in South Korea.
The decision to get a PhD is a complex one, but being shunned as overqualified is a rather skewed perception. |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? |
Trevor,
You're doing well but I suggest that you remove the Ph.D from your CV. Universities in Korea don't hire foreigners with doctorates to teach in their English language programs. It is likely to work against you if leave that on your resume. |
One would hope that he would not even put on it he has a Ph.D since he does not have one yet. After he has one, yes put it on. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I think the usual format is to list my degree program as current and indicate when my degree is expected.
| drcrazy wrote: |
| I'm With You wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| I haven't seen too many posts for specific subjects. Are they listed somewhere other than Dave's job board? |
Trevor,
You're doing well but I suggest that you remove the Ph.D from your CV. Universities in Korea don't hire foreigners with doctorates to teach in their English language programs. It is likely to work against you if leave that on your resume. |
One would hope that he would not even put on it he has a Ph.D since he does not have one yet. After he has one, yes put it on. |
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