Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

If the U.S. military were to pull out of the ROK, I'd...
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  

If the U.S. military were to pull out of the ROK, I'd...
Drop everything and get the next plane out myself.
14%
 14%  [ 8 ]
Prepare for a slow but orderly withdrawal soon.
17%
 17%  [ 10 ]
Stay, but would move to Busan
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Stay, but be much more ready to evacuate.
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Stay, nothing would change.
52%
 52%  [ 30 ]
Stay, but move to Paju for front row seats.
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 57

Author Message
T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: If the U.S. military were to pull out of the ROK, I'd... Reply with quote


A comment in another thread got me thinking so I thought a poll would be interesting....

The U.S. announces an immediate withdrawal of forces from the Korean Peninsula. What do you as Joe English teacher in Korea do now?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roguefishfood



Joined: 21 May 2011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: If the U.S. military were to pull out of the ROK, I'd... Reply with quote

T-J wrote:

A comment in another thread got me thinking so I thought a poll would be interesting....

The U.S. announces an immediate withdrawal of forces from the Korean Peninsula. What do you as Joe English teacher in Korea do now?



I probably fail to even notice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the type if pull out, I suppose. Sudden, and scary, it might have me worried, But phased over a couple of years, I don't think I'd both much with it.

either way, probably wouldn't factor much into where I live.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Head for Incheon! KJE will be sending his unlimited supply of men, equipment, and robo-troopers cascading all over the DMZ. China will immediately decide to throw away the last 30 years of economic and geopolitical reform to conquer Korea, the land of bountiful natural resources. Why bother with Mongolia/Taiwan/Vietnam/Laos/Thailand/Oil-Rich Islands/Former Soviet Republics? Go after the country that has the has the best-equipped and largest military out of all of them. What better way to deal with population problems than absorbing 50 million potentially rebellious subjects in one of the most densely populated countries on Earth.

I can picture it now, a massive wave of soldiers, tanks, and jeeps all running up and down the mountains of Korea at a full sprint for 10 miles straight. They'll be able to aim perfectly while running and somehow the soldiers will be able to run as fast as the tanks and jeeps. Guys in the back of jeeps bouncing on the ground will be blazing their machine guns and mowing everything down in sight.

But that's only after the North Koreans unleash 'Shock & Awe' by moving up every single artillery piece they have in a giant swarm of artillery and proceeding to spend all their ordinance blowing up the high-value military targets of Seoul like The Face Shop, GS25, BBQ Chicken, Love Motels, Apartment Buildings, and offices.

Not to mention suddenly out of the depths of the land and sea, 100,000 soldiers and tanks who have somehow managed to move silently spring out like a bunch of ants. Midget subs everywhere and Nork Navy commandos raid every coastal city from Incheon to Busan.

All of the above will happen without warning and no detection. North Korea has the infrastructure and resources and petrol to magically move a million people to the DMZ in 24 hours.

North Korea will prove that 1960s-era Soviet technology can indeed win a standup conventional fight against modern western tanks, aircraft, and ships.

Meanwhile, the South Koreans will immediately lay down arms. After all they despise materialism and consumerism and are longing to reunite with their northern brethren. Being together as Korean comes first.

After all the South has demonstrated that it's Armed Forces are completely inept. Time after time in Vietnam they were routed. The VC practically owned the area. And unlike the South Koreans, the Norks have an extensive cadre of soldiers who served in combat and were able to pass on their knowledge and expertise, to say nothing of the constant deployments they've had overseas to get field experience.

With the army gone, foreigners will be hunted down like it's the 2nd coming of Jim Crow and the KKK. What a perfect opportunity to start a kristallnacht. Who cares about the latest episode of your favorite drama, drinking soju with buddies, or trying to get laid. Lets smash the foreigners! Throw away 50 years of globalization overnight!

Yeah, if the soldiers are out, we should get on the first plane. It'll be doom & gloom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Depends on the type if pull out, I suppose. Sudden, and scary, it might have me worried, But phased over a couple of years, I don't think I'd both much with it.

either way, probably wouldn't factor much into where I live.


T-J wrote:

A comment in another thread got me thinking so I thought a poll would be interesting....

The U.S. announces
an immediate withdrawal of forces from the Korean Peninsula. What do you as Joe English teacher in Korea do now?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would applaud. Not one American soldier should die for such a nation of ingrates. When Korea's very first K-pop star in the US has a record of vicious anti-Americanism, and hatred for US troops, you know how widespread it is. Let South Korea defend its own border.

As for me, it won't affect me one bit. If my students can't flee the country nor should their teachers. That includes me. But of course, according to the media, we're all drug using, unqualified teachers who only care about money. We'd all be out of here at the drop of a hat. That's why I love teaching Korean children. There heads aren't filled with racist nonsense yet.

If my students can't run away, I'm not running away either. Period.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the U.S. were to pull out, mandatory military service time for Korean males would go way up.

BTW, North Korea has one of the strongest militaries in the world, and is one of the very few countries on earth to have nukes. (Since the 90s, they are the only country to have tested a nuclear weapon...and they did it three times.) They have chemical and biological weapons, too. As far as missiles and artillery is concerned, the ROK is outgunned. The Norks have enough shooting to power to flatten Seoul. (That is true.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: If the U.S. military were to pull out of the ROK, I'd... Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
The U.S. announces an immediate withdrawal of forces from the Korean Peninsula.


Meh...doesn't change nuffin'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crouchy



Joined: 05 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be more worried that Rodman would tell fat boy in the North that it's safe to enter the South.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sluggo832004



Joined: 04 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who would have thought Rodman of all people would be such an ambassador? haha


"All he wants is a phone call." hahahaha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
If the U.S. were to pull out, mandatory military service time for Korean males would go way up.

BTW, North Korea has one of the strongest militaries in the world, and is one of the very few countries on earth to have nukes. (Since the 90s, they are the only country to have tested a nuclear weapon...and they did it three times.) They have chemical and biological weapons, too. As far as missiles and artillery is concerned, the ROK is outgunned. The Norks have enough shooting to power to flatten Seoul. (That is true.)


First, they'd never use offensive nuclear weapons and certainly not in a sneak attack. They would be flattened off the map by the global order.

If the US did withdraw its forces and withdraw from the Mutual Defense Treaty, S. Korea would rapidly nuclearize and it's power would soon eclipse N.Korea's in nuclear arms. As I mentioned in another thread, South Korea would likely covertly contract Israel for 'interim nukes' while it developed it's capability.

The problem with chemical weapons is they aren't all that useful. Shifting wind patterns and the like make them of limited value and S.Korea would just retaliate with its own chemical and biological weapons. Biological weapons are often as dangerous to the attacker as well. N.Korea lacks the infrastructure and resources (namely foreign capital) to deal with something like an anthrax attack. What good is a biological weapon if it knocks out 35% of the enemy force but 65% of your own?

As for missiles and artillery, there is a qualitative difference. Also, one should consider that the ROK would gain rapid air superiority and make artillery positions vulnerable to counter-attack once they revealed themselves. The mountainous terrain and poor NK infrastructure makes 'shoot and scoot' a dicey proposition, to say nothing of the maintenance of both the artillery pieces themselves as well as their ordinance.

The 'missile gap' would similarly swing in SK's favor rapidly as their technology and economy would allow them to overwhelm the North.

As for being able to 'flatten Seoul', I think people over-estimate the capability of NK to perform this, the effectiveness of bombardments and how long an army is able to sustain them. In order to accomplish this, NK would have to basically move every artillery piece it had in range of Seoul, something that would not go undetected and would not be allowed to happen as SK would preemptively strike, and be allowed to do so under international law while still claiming it was 'defending' itself. Even if somehow NKorea managed to magically do this, on suspect roads, with suspect maintenance, the figure is only attainable by NK expending their entire ordinance on Seoul, uninterrupted, at maximum firing rates, with no counter-battery failure, something that flat out wouldn't be able to happen. Lastly, there is the dubiousness of risking and expending one's entire one's entire artillery to hit a non-military target. One would think you would want to deploy your artillery against military targets, not a Tony Moly.

Also, bombardments against civilian centers are seldom effective or decisive. Observe the Blitz against London or the Air War over Europe, the bombings of Haiphong and Hanoi, the Israeli-Lebanon war.

What you are failing to consider is how the S.Korean military looks to KJE on the other side of the DMZ. To KJE he sees a nation that is far more powerful, richer, with superior equipment and superior training. He would gladly trade his Air Force, Navy, and Armor for S. Korea's. The loyalty of his commanders and soldiers is suspect. The reliability of his equipment is doubtful. His reserves are minimal. Petrol for his mechanized units? Tenuous at best. Furthermore he must worry about a repeat of an Incheon-style amphibious assault, he cannot deploy his forces solely at the DMZ, but even more importantly, he has to worry about his northern border and either a refugee stampede or China coming in to 'deal' with him.

Ulysses S. Grant summed it up best-
U.S.Grant wrote:
As we approached the brow of the hill from which it was expected we could see Harris' camp, and possibly find his men ready formed to mee us, my heart kept getting higher and higher until it felt to me as though it was in my throat ... [until I reached] the place where Harris had been encamped a few days before was still visible, but the troops were gone. My heart resumed its place. It occurred to me at once that Harris had been as much afraid of me as I had been of him. From that event to the close of the war, I never experienced trepidation upon confronting an enemy, though I always felt more or less anxiety. I never forgot that he had as much reason to fear my forces as I had his. The lesson was valuable


The fear-mongering and Nork War fantasies are ridiculous at times. Read a few books on war first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sluggo832004 wrote:
who would have thought Rodman of all people would be such an ambassador? haha


"All he wants is a phone call." hahahaha


Some radio guys were talking about this- Imagine if Rodman had been taken hostage and we had started some skirmish over it that spiraled into a full on nuclear war.

The end of the world. All over Dennis Rodman.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If my students can't run away, I'm not running away either. Period.


I'm not even going to pretend to be valiant. To hell with my students, I'd leave faster than Usain Bolt being chased by the KKK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
As for being able to 'flatten Seoul', I think people over-estimate the capability of NK to perform this, the effectiveness of bombardments and how long an army is able to sustain them. In order to accomplish this, NK would have to basically move every artillery piece it had in range of Seoul, something that would not go undetected and would not be allowed to happen as SK would preemptively strike, and be allowed to do so under international law while still claiming it was 'defending' itself.

Except the stuff is already at the DMZ and pointed straight at Seoul. Have you seen the distance from the DMZ to Seoul on a map? It's short.

Quote:
There are thousands of hardened underground bunkers close to the front line, and North Korean artillery will carry out "shoot and scoot" attacks, emerging briefly to fire and withdrawing rapidly. According to a RAND study, a multiple rocket launcher can be back under cover within 75 seconds of firing.

Did you know there are 13,000 artillery pieces positioned along the border?

Quote:
Its conventional artillery capability would allow North Korea to flatten Seoul in the first half-hour of any confrontation. The human cost of going to war may too prohibitive in this instance. Instead, the hawks want to isolate North Korea and force its collapse through sanctions.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,446776,00.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Depends on the type if pull out, I suppose. Sudden, and scary, it might have me worried, But phased over a couple of years, I don't think I'd both much with it.

either way, probably wouldn't factor much into where I live.


T-J wrote:

A comment in another thread got me thinking so I thought a poll would be interesting....

The U.S. announces
an immediate withdrawal of forces from the Korean Peninsula. What do you as Joe English teacher in Korea do now?



That still doesn't change my answer, but thanks for quoting yourself.

Perhaps we could form some kind of quote chain? Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 1 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International