| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:21 am Post subject: Anyone know about teaching at Seoul National? |
 |
|
I'm mostly interested in how foreign professors are treated and if they're accepted by staff and other faculty. I've heard negative things in the past and wonder if they still hold true.
Thanks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Things were good there but went downhill. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I see they've removed the line about 22 weeks paid vacation from their job ad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| They realized people want to work there for the prestige attached, so they (correctly) figured they could get away with worsening job conditions. (And in this flooded market, they can.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
| They realized people want to work there for the prestige attached, so they (correctly) figured they could get away with worsening job conditions. (And in this flooded market, they can.) |
its becoming par for the course for most univs. not just the "name" univs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't really have inside information, but I know a few people who applied there last year. The only person to get an interview had an unrelated MA, but an MA from a top tier uni in the States. If you don't have a top tier MA, good luck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I turned down a job offer there about 4 years ago. The local professor who was the director of the program at the was arrogant and left me with the feeling that I should kiss her ass for letting me teach there. Another school that pays B.A. holders the same as masters and doctoral holders.
You get this attitude at these SKY schools, even from the admin. Secretarial staff.
But often the best schools to work for aren't the top ranked schools. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you mean that not having 22 weeks of paid vacations is 'worsening conditions' you have some pretty high standards.
Frankly language teachers without PhD's do not deserve 22 weeks of paid vacation and in fact no-one, no even full professors get that because it is just non contact time when they attend conferences and conduct research. I am pretty sure that SNU does not even want the people who 'prize' 22 weeks of paid vacation because most professional teachers will be happy with a month of holidays per year and in all likelyhood they give you two.
If you have other examples of worsening conditions like not getting paid overtime that is a different story. Seoul National from what I heard has been coming back into line with other public uni's around the country. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
If you mean that not having 22 weeks of paid vacations is 'worsening conditions' you have some pretty high standards.
Frankly language teachers without PhD's do not deserve 22 weeks of paid vacation and in fact no-one, no even full professors get that because it is just non contact time when they attend conferences and conduct research. I am pretty sure that SNU does not even want the people who 'prize' 22 weeks of paid vacation because most professional teachers will be happy with a month of holidays per year and in all likelyhood they give you two.
If you have other examples of worsening conditions like not getting paid overtime that is a different story. Seoul National from what I heard has been coming back into line with other public uni's around the country. |
I just mentioned that the 22 week line appeared last years ad but not this years.
I don't prize 22 weeks vacation but if I was to apply for a lecturing position that pays half the salary of a lecturing position in my own country there had better be a trade off and the lower tax rate doesn't cut it.
I'm assuming SNU would actually provide desktop access to databases and programs like SPSS, eview, or SAS so that people can actually do research but many jobs here don't. I'm happy to work 48 weeks a year, I'm not happy to deskwarm for even a week let alone 16 weeks.
My area of research is business so the job isn't even of interest to me but one likes to keep abreast of what's on offer. In the unlikely event that I ever took another university position in Korea I'd need a long winter vacation because I would be doing my research somewhere warmer called Australia and I'm not referring to researching the effects of the sun on my body.
Actually I checked again they do offer 20 + weeks holiday no wasted time deskwarming makes this a fantastic job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| They realized people want to work there for the prestige attached, so they (correctly) figured they could get away with worsening job conditions. (And in this flooded market, they can.) |
its becoming par for the course for most univs. not just the "name" univs |
 You are right.
| Quote: |
Well even at univ level it seems like the party is over. Contact hours are going up (one univ just told their staff their base hours are going from 12 to 15 with no increase in pay), working conditions are getting worse as admins have discovered young MA's will take more crap for the job, pay is stagnant like everywhere else and with the declining birth rates enrollments are headed down so over the next few years it will be getting more competitive. I'm hearing stories of people who have been here 10+ years getting out because the value just isn't there here. the days of having a BA and few years ps or hogwon experience and landing a univ gig are but a distant memory
Throw in inflation and the only thing a good univ offers now is time off. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
It seems a rather simplistic assessment to me to put the tightening of conditions down to just market conditions for teachers. This makes a giant assumption that things would have stayed the same had the market not changed. I disagree.
There are elements of both the market supply of teachers AND an maturing of the role that teachers are playing in these institutions that are simultaneously taking place. Which is the bigger force is unknown.
You will not see these conditions improve much should the supply of teachers suddenly dwindle. Universities are learning what their teachers are for and how to use them. In some places of course conditions are improving.
In universities where people were at the other end of the scale it was mainly because the faculty had no idea what to do with those teachers. Slowly over time schools are finding programs and ways to utilize their foreign staff. They are growing their course offerings and requiring more hours etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Trip
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
If you mean that not having 22 weeks of paid vacations is 'worsening conditions' you have some pretty high standards.
Frankly language teachers without PhD's do not deserve 22 weeks of paid vacation and in fact no-one, no even full professors get that because it is just non contact time when they attend conferences and conduct research. |
High standards based on the norm in Korea. Want the best teachers? Offer the best pay and vacation.
Korean profs make a lot more than foreigner profs. They get paid to do research. Foreign profs usually don't. Korean profs teach 6-9 credit hours. Foreign profs teach 12, 15, or even more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
You taught there from 2008-2010? (I think I remember you said you were hired there in 2008?) Where are you working now, Nate? You said you have a job in the United States related to your major? Did you graduate from a good university? I ask because I remember you said they hired you from abroad (they paid your airfare too?) which sounds like a great deal. Anyways, glad to hear things worked out for you.
Looking at the ad, it looks like their hiring standards were raised since 2008:
1. A master�s degree in an English related field (such as TESOL, linguistics, English literature, etc.)
2. Teaching experience at the college level
3. The total period of work experience (including the masters or doctoral degree terms) should be more than 5 years.
Did you have all those things then (in 2008) when you were hired from abroad? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
You taught there from 2008-2010? (I think I remember you said you were hired there in 2008?) Where are you working now, Nate? You said you have a job in the United States related to your major? Did you graduate from a good university? I ask because I remember you said they hired you from abroad (they paid your airfare too?) which sounds like a great deal. Anyways, glad to hear things worked out for you.
Looking at the ad, it looks like their hiring standards were raised since 2008:
1. A master�s degree in an English related field (such as TESOL, linguistics, English literature, etc.)
2. Teaching experience at the college level
3. The total period of work experience (including the masters or doctoral degree terms) should be more than 5 years.
Did you have all those things then (in 2008) when you were hired from abroad? |
So, just to clarify I wasn't hired to teach "for credit" courses like in the ad - I was just at the Language Education Institute (still limited to SNU students and faculty/staff though). I am back in the US in a field related to my original studies.
In my particular case, they were actually looking to hire a couple people with non-English language backgrounds in order to accommodate a lot of requests from the engineering/science departments to offer targeted classes and help writing grad school applications/cover letters, which I ended up doing a fair bit of.
I was just finishing up my second master's and I had taught, TA'd, and tutored during grad school and had also taught middle/hs students in the summer twice. I'm sure there was quite a bit of luck involved, since I applied to a number of other university positions and never had an interview (the only other communication I recall is Ewha saying they wanted two years of experience for consideration).
Another thing that may have helped is I had experience studying languages myself, which I mentioned (including Korean), and I had done one of those cheap online ESL certificates (which people seem to care about). For context, my undergrad degree is from a top liberal arts that would be virtually unknown in Korea, but my second master's is from a good, well-known school. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
