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Grammar explanation required

 
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Poker



Joined: 16 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Grammar explanation required Reply with quote

Hi, please share your knowledge.

"I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

That is in the text book. Now when do we use the following?

1. "I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

Thank you
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tob55



Joined: 29 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Grammar explanation required Reply with quote

Poker wrote:
Hi, please share your knowledge.

"I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

That is in the text book. Now when do we use the following?

1. "I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

Thank you


Just from an observation point of view

1. Your first example cites an observation by you about the dress attire of people.

2. The second sentence is about an observation by you of others physically being dressed by someone assisting them.

3. The third observation is similar to the first except for the fact "that" is used as a modifier to point to the action of the sentence "people dressed up as movie characters.

These all have a semantic relationship to the speaker as an observer.
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drcrazy



Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In any case, #2 is incorrect. "I saw that people had dressed up as popular movie characters....
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drcrazy wrote:
In any case, #2 is incorrect. "I saw that people had dressed up as popular movie characters....



#2 is perfectly fine. It just depends on the context.


When I was in High School, I was interested in a career as a performer, so I visited the Drama Club. They had a variety of activities every week. I saw that they put on a different play each week. I saw that they performed musical numbers and stand-up comedy. I saw that they dressed up as popular movie characters. It looked like a lot of fun, but I didn't join.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw people being dressed up .... etc.

This one means that you actually watched the action of the people getting

their costumes on.


The other two just relate that the people were already wearing them.


There is no difference between the first and third sentence.

The "that" is implied in the first sentence.

Of course, context could make them different.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the first sentence is a relative clause (well, a reduced form):

I saw people (who were) dressed up.....

And the third one is a noun clause:

I saw that people dressed up.....

Now, the sentence

"I see people dressed up...." is possible as a noun clause, with the "I see" used in a figurative sense (i.e., you use it in a way to emphasize that you have noticed something) , but I don't think that construction works in past tense
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. "I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."


Talks about the event in the past in reference to something commonly understandable. We don't know if the speaker will see people dressed up in the same garb again.

Quote:
2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."


Talks about an event that happened in the past and can/does happen now. Hence, we can expect to see them in the same garb tomorrow, next week, or sometime in the future. Indicates a regular occurrence grammatically.

In this case, sentence two is not a complete sentence.

2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman ________________."

2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman really like (watching) movies."


The first sentence is the closest to "I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Grammar explanation required Reply with quote

Poker wrote:


"I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

"I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

"I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."



All three sentences are fine. Each is a complete sentence as is. If you are making some kind of test, each of these is a grammatically correct sentence.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Grammar explanation required Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
Poker wrote:


"I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

"I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

"I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."



All three sentences are fine. Each is a complete sentence as is. If you are making some kind of test, each of these is a grammatically correct sentence.


But one is in the book, so I think we should analyze things based on what the book said. The first sentence reflects the book, not the second. Hence, incomplete.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On second thought;


The sentence in the book is just noting a past event.

The "being" sentence is a past progressive, meaning the speaker is observing the action in progression as it happened in the past.


The last one notes that people dressed up in certain costumes.

(as opposed to other costumes)
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The last one notes that people dressed up in certain costumes.


I'll expand on that. If you are reading it as a future event read my earlier reply.

If you are strictly reading it as a past event, then it sounds more like this speaker wasn't at this party and did not actually see it. They are talking about a much earlier time period.

"I went to the museum and saw that people dressed up and wore white wigs during George Washington's time."
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Grammar explanation required Reply with quote

Poker wrote:
Hi, please share your knowledge.

"I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

That is in the text book. Now when do we use the following?

1. "I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

2. "I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman."

Thank you


1.I saw people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman

2. I saw people being dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman

Both 1 and 2 state what you saw at a past time, and both of them have reduced relative clauses modifying the object of the verb 'saw'. The difference is that '[were] dressed up' is past simple passive, implying a completed action; '[were] being dressed up' is past progressive passive, implying an action in progress.

So in 1 the people you saw already have costumes on, and in 2 someone is still putting the costumes on the people.

3. I saw that people dressed up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman

This suggests use of the word 'saw' in the sense of 'understood'. It parallels...

3b. I see that people dress up as popular movie characters, such as Shrek, Dracula, and Spiderman.

The latter does not imply people dressing up at any particular time and altering 'see' to the past tense, as in 3, changes only the time at which understanding occurred, with no implication of people dressing up at any particular time either.

In 3 and 3b 'dress up/dressed up' is not a reduced relative clause, but the main verb of an embedded clause. It changes to past tense form in the same way as happens in indirect reported speech (e.g. 'I am going to the store' becomes 'He said [that] he was going to the store'), without altering the underlying meaning of the embedded clause.
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