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jcm87
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: If you quit are you entitled to a release letter? |
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I teach at a hagwon in Seoul and I got a job offer from another hagwon with much better pay. They needed me to start immediately (June 10) and I said OK and signed the contract. I told my current boss that I needed to leave by the 10th and he got really mad and told me he wouldn't give me the letter of release required to switch schools and stay on the same E2 visa (apparently if you don't get this you have 30 days to leave the country and can't come back on an E2 for another 3 months) until I find a replacement for the job and the replacement signed a contract with the school. He also made me write an email to him saying this and said that he'd sign it as a contract. The trouble is this is an SAT/AP test prep hagwon and it's not easy to find people who can teach these classes. I have someone lined up but I can't be sure my boss will like him.
Anyway, what I want to know is if the labor board could help me out if my boss doesn't give me the release letter. I'm hoping it won't come down to that (I'll do my best to find a replacement) but if it does I'd like to know what my options are. I really need this new job (they obviously gave away all my teaching hours at my current school) and I don't want to leave Korea. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to criticise just a moment, but your join date is 2010 and you thought your hagwon boss was going to just give you a LoR with a weeks notice you are quitting 
As I have been away from the visa game for a bit now, I am not 100% sure of the details. However, I believe people in your situation would have these options:
1. New D10 visa (I never had one. No idea if you qualify.)
2. Visa run to Japan with brand new set of documents (can't get another E2 visa for 3 months? This doesn't souund right. People quit jobs and make visa runs all the time. However, you would need all new docs.)
3. LoR (Kiss some ass and kiss it well)
4. Marry in the next week 
5. I think all other options would be considered working in the country illegally and are therefore prohibited from being discussed on Dave's.
Good luck. However, now expect the normal feedback from Dave's telling you how you have no work ethic and what a dumb ass you are. In 3, 2, 1 ..... |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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you have no work ethic and what a dumb ass you are!
Seriously though - have you read your contract? I am quite sure that there is a clause in there that says there that you have to warn your hagwon a month or two in advance prior to quitting. It works both ways.
Aside from that - what can you do? Marrying a Korean is not a bad idea, but as I understand it, marriage visa procedures have gotten a bit more complicated as of late. How is your Korean?^^ |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| you have no work ethic and what a dumb ass you are! |
All you saw were $$$$$ signs 
There would be nothing stopping your boss from 'making you' find a replacement for you and then ripping up your 'contract' and telling you to take a hike!
You'll still have to wait the 3 months for your E-2 to expire! |
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modernseoul
Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: If you quit are you entitled to a release letter? |
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| jcm87 wrote: |
Anyway, what I want to know is if the labor board could help me out if my boss doesn't give me the release letter. I'm hoping it won't come down to that (I'll do my best to find a replacement) but if it does I'd like to know what my options are. I really need this new job (they obviously gave away all my teaching hours at my current school) and I don't want to leave Korea. |
Why would the Labor Board help you? Have the school done anything wrong?
It sounds like you want to go to a new school ASAP but both legally and morally you can't/shouldn't unless your current school agrees to it which is unlikely. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
you have no work ethic and what a dumb ass you are!
Seriously though - have you read your contract? I am quite sure that there is a clause in there that says there that you have to warn your hagwon a month or two in advance prior to quitting. |
The law trumps the contract. An employee has the right to quit a job at any time without notice. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
you have no work ethic and what a dumb ass you are!
Seriously though - have you read your contract? I am quite sure that there is a clause in there that says there that you have to warn your hagwon a month or two in advance prior to quitting. |
The law trumps the contract. An employee has the right to quit a job at any time without notice. |
An employee can quit without giving notice that is true. But he or she may still legally be subjected to penalties if the contract asks for notice.
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Article 97 (Procedures for Preparation of and Amendment to Rules of Employment)
(1)An employer shall seek the opinions of a trade union, if there is a trade union composed of the majority of the workers in the workplace concerned, or the opinions of the majority of workers if there is no trade union composed of the majority of the workers, with regard to the preparation of and amendment to the rules of employment. Provided, however, that the rules of employment are modified unfavorably to workers, the employer shall obtain workers' consent.
(2)When an employer submits the rules of employment in accordance with the provisions of Article 96, a written document containing the opinions referred to in paragraph (1) shall be attached.
Article 99 (Observance of Collective Agreement)
(1)The rules of employment shall not conflict with laws or decrees or a collective agreement applicable to the workplace concerned.
(2)The Minister of Labor has the authority to order the amendment to the rules of employment which is deemed to conflict with laws or decrees or a collective agreement |
The employer has the authority to modify the rules at his workplace provided they do not violate EXISTING rules or the spirit of said laws.
And (yes I know that the OP works for a hakwon) but both EPIK and GEPIK state that if you don't give notice you can be banned from ever working for a public school again. Since these are government organizations it seems that they if anyone, would follow the law.
Sure you can quit without notice...you are not a slave. But penalties can be levied if the contract asks for notice. And apparently these penalties are legal.
And it would seem that it does indeed violate IMMIGRATION'S rules
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2012/06/28/yank-english-teacher-mocks-immigration-law-by-getting-new-job-after-leaving-old-one-without-notice/
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Just five months into her contract, however, S sent a letter to Choi saying she didn�t like working in a provincial area and needed to find work in Seoul. Choi said no and told her to finish her contract, but on March 6, she fled her residence.
Two days later, she changed her E-2 visa to a D-10 visa at the immigration office in Ansan and got work as an English teacher at an elementary school in Gunpo through a recruiter.
The problem is that while S went alone to the immigration offices in both Ansan and Suwon to get her visa changed, none of the offices saw that she had left her previous workplace without notice and just processed her visa quickly, indicating sloppy immigration policy. |
| Quote: |
Choi said he had to eat a loss of about 10 million won, including the airfare, the agency fee, getting S her visa, accommodation rent and now the screwed-up teaching schedule. He complained with immigration policy so sloppy, who�s going to believe the government and hire a foreign teacher?
Fear not, though�an immigration official in Ansan said while they were only following regulations, they now know the visa change regulations were insufficient, and that said regulations would be changed to prevent similar incidents in the future. |
(bolding mine) |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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A case, IMHO a very good case, can be made that the entire "letter of release" requirement is illegal as it conflicts with the ROK constitution. Also, as you say, an employee is not a slave. The current LOR requirement basically makes your current employer your owner. Also, what penalties can be assessed for resigning without notice? It's already against the law to make monetary penalties. I can see, of course, that someone not completing the contract would forfeit a return trip to their home country. But to keep the employee's money because they didn't give 30/60/90/whatever days notice? Not legal at all.
Oh, again IMHO, I think a very good case can be made that banning a person from future employment for exercising their legal rights is also not legal. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: If you quit are you entitled to a release letter? |
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| jcm87 wrote: |
I teach at a hagwon in Seoul and I got a job offer from another hagwon with much better pay. They needed me to start immediately (June 10) and I said OK and signed the contract. I told my current boss that I needed to leave by the 10th and he got really mad and told me he wouldn't give me the letter of release required to switch schools and stay on the same E2 visa (apparently if you don't get this you have 30 days to leave the country and can't come back on an E2 for another 3 months) until I find a replacement for the job and the replacement signed a contract with the school. He also made me write an email to him saying this and said that he'd sign it as a contract. The trouble is this is an SAT/AP test prep hagwon and it's not easy to find people who can teach these classes. I have someone lined up but I can't be sure my boss will like him.
Anyway, what I want to know is if the labor board could help me out if my boss doesn't give me the release letter. I'm hoping it won't come down to that (I'll do my best to find a replacement) but if it does I'd like to know what my options are. I really need this new job (they obviously gave away all my teaching hours at my current school) and I don't want to leave Korea. |
Aside from the ethics issue...
Your current employer is under NO LEGAL obligation to issue a LOR nor can they be compelled to by the labor board to have you released unless there is a grievous breach of labor law by the employer.
What do you think of China; since you pretty much burned the bridge at your current employer and may be stuck without work once they have a replacement?
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jcm87
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Another thing is that all money owed to me (salary, etc.) will not be paid until my replacement completes completes three months of employment with the school. I don't care about that. They can have the money I just want the release letter. But isn't that enough of a penalty? Why withhold my release letter as well?
As far as morals/ethics go, I was going to be teaching between 20-30 hours a week at my current school at 35k won an hour. The new school guarantees me 40 hours a week in the contract and will pay 60 an hour. Not to mention it seems like I'd like working there more. I feel bad about leaving my school with only 9 days notice but this would help me much more than it would hurt them. I think just about anyone would have done the same if they were in my shoes. And from my boss' perspective, why not just tell me I wouldn't get the release letter and that I either have to work for their school or not work anywhere at all? I would have been mad if he did that but I'd rather work at my old school than get kicked out of the country. But I can't even work at my old school now because they took me off the schedule and gave my classes to other teachers. So it's either this works out or I have to try to land a test prep gig in Hong Kong or teach ESL in Taipei.
Anyway, I have to pray that I find a good replacement. If not, I think the D10 is my only option. I'm American and if I did a visa run that means I'd need a new FBI criminal background check (which takes months), right? It's either that or working illegally. I'm going to do more research on the D10...I'd never heard of it. My Korean is terrible and I'm not sure if I could get married by the end of the week lol.
Thanks for the help and let me know if anything else comes to mind. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| jcm87 wrote: |
| The new school guarantees me 40 hours a week in the contract and will pay 60 an hour. |
Are you saying your salary at the new job is 10M a month? |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| jcm87 wrote: |
Another thing is that all money owed to me (salary, etc.) will not be paid until my replacement completes completes three months of employment with the school. I don't care about that. They can have the money I just want the release letter. But isn't that enough of a penalty? Why withhold my release letter as well?
As far as morals/ethics go, I was going to be teaching between 20-30 hours a week at my current school at 35k won an hour. The new school guarantees me 40 hours a week in the contract and will pay 60 an hour. Not to mention it seems like I'd like working there more. I feel bad about leaving my school with only 9 days notice but this would help me much more than it would hurt them. I think just about anyone would have done the same if they were in my shoes. And from my boss' perspective, why not just tell me I wouldn't get the release letter and that I either have to work for their school or not work anywhere at all? I would have been mad if he did that but I'd rather work at my old school than get kicked out of the country. But I can't even work at my old school now because they took me off the schedule and gave my classes to other teachers. So it's either this works out or I have to try to land a test prep gig in Hong Kong or teach ESL in Taipei.
Anyway, I have to pray that I find a good replacement. If not, I think the D10 is my only option. I'm American and if I did a visa run that means I'd need a new FBI criminal background check (which takes months), right? It's either that or working illegally. I'm going to do more research on the D10...I'd never heard of it. My Korean is terrible and I'm not sure if I could get married by the end of the week lol.
Thanks for the help and let me know if anything else comes to mind. |
From his point of view, he paid money to bring you over, hasn't treated you too terribly and has upheld his end of the bargain while you want to just up and leave while breaking the terms of the contract. He is in no way obligated to give you a LOR.
However, it seems like the difference in pay is quite big... You could try offering to pay part of the future teacher's salary for a few months... If it helps you secure much more money long-term it might be worth it. |
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jcm87
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:16 am Post subject: |
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So I called immigration and you cannot work on a D10 visa, and to switch back to an E2 visa you need the LoR. So you need the LoR no matter what. It's either that or work illegally (which I'm sure my school would not let me do).
| War Eagle wrote: |
| jcm87 wrote: |
| The new school guarantees me 40 hours a week in the contract and will pay 60 an hour. |
Are you saying your salary at the new job is 10M a month? |
Yeah. Pretty awesome right? I got lucky with this job (their teacher left last second and they needed a replacement so they let me name my price). It's only for the summer though, but I could possibly stay on longer (at much less than 40 hours a week, probably like 20 hours a week, but still, very good) if they like me. There will be tons of papers to grade (which I don't get paid for) but still I was so stoked when I signed that contract. But now it looks like I may have lost it.
| salutbonjour wrote: |
From his point of view, he paid money to bring you over, hasn't treated you too terribly and has upheld his end of the bargain while you want to just up and leave while breaking the terms of the contract. He is in no way obligated to give you a LOR.
However, it seems like the difference in pay is quite big... You could try offering to pay part of the future teacher's salary for a few months... If it helps you secure much more money long-term it might be worth it. |
I taught there for over two years without any complaints and always did my job well (the past year I have had hardly any hours as well). And I did not get any compensation for airfare on the second year of the contract (nor do teachers at my school get a pension, bonus, health insurance, or anything like that) so it's not like he made an investment on me. He should be prepared for teachers to leave because other test prep hagwons pay much better than mine, and, in fact, all of the teachers there when I started teaching have since left for better schools. Anyway, why couldn't he tell me he wouldn't give me the LoR and just make me work there and fulfill my contract? He didn't give me that option...he fired me and will only give me the LoR if I find a replacement he likes. And if I don't do this by the end of the week my new school probably will not hire me...so I'm in a state of limbo and there's a good chance I will have lost this incredible job offer. He, the owner of a very successful hagwon that can handle one teacher leaving, is hurting me (some 25 year old with a ton of student debt) a hundred times more than I hurt him. Sorry to vent, I'm just really frustrated with all of this. I can't believe I'm on the verge of getting kicked out of the country. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| jcm87 wrote: |
| Another thing is that all money owed to me (salary, etc.) will not be paid until my replacement completes completes three months of employment with the school. |
WTF?! Wrong. A thousand times wrong! An employer cannot withhold your money that long. And what's to stop them from canning the replacement just shy of three months? What are you supposed to do, wait for an entire succession of "replacements" to go through until the boss finally decides he likes one?
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| I don't care about that. |
You're the dream employee of the most dishonest hagweon bosses on the planet then.
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| They can have the money I just want the release letter. But isn't that enough of a penalty? Why withhold my release letter as well? |
Spite.
| Quote: |
| As far as morals/ethics go, I was going to be teaching between 20-30 hours a week at my current school at 35k won an hour. The new school guarantees me 40 hours a week in the contract and will pay 60 an hour. Not to mention it seems like I'd like working there more. I feel bad about leaving my school with only 9 days notice but this would help me much more than it would hurt them. I think just about anyone would have done the same if they were in my shoes. And from my boss' perspective, why not just tell me I wouldn't get the release letter and that I either have to work for their school or not work anywhere at all? I would have been mad if he did that but I'd rather work at my old school than get kicked out of the country. But I can't even work at my old school now because they took me off the schedule and gave my classes to other teachers. So it's either this works out or I have to try to land a test prep gig in Hong Kong or teach ESL in Taipei. |
Let's see:
- Hourly pay, not a montly salary.
- You have no control over your hours.
- Punitive monetary measures
You wouldn't be adverse to naming the "chain" that your current hagweon is affiliated with, would you? I mean, a fair number of us can probably guess what it is, but not everyone could.
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| Anyway, I have to pray that I find a good replacement. If not, I think the D10 is my only option. I'm American and if I did a visa run that means I'd need a new FBI criminal background check (which takes months), right? |
You can get the FBI CBC done much faster than in a few months, but you'll have to hire someone to personally drop it off and pick it up.
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| It's either that or working illegally. |
Working illegally in Korea isn't a smart idea.
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I'm going to do more research on the D10...I'd never heard of it. My Korean is terrible and I'm not sure if I could get married by the end of the week lol.
Thanks for the help and let me know if anything else comes to mind. |
Yeah. Whatever this new gig is (60k an hour?), make sure the contract isn't as bad as the one you signed with your current outfit.
Last edited by CentralCali on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| A case, IMHO a very good case, can be made that the entire "letter of release" requirement is illegal as it conflicts with the ROK constitution. Also, as you say, an employee is not a slave. The current LOR requirement basically makes your current employer your owner. Also, what penalties can be assessed for resigning without notice? It's already against the law to make monetary penalties... |
The LOR requirement is an IMMIGRATION requirement for certain visa types such as the E-2 (as the OP has found out). Therefore it does not conflict with the ROK constitution. Which means that those who not wish to provide a LOR, that the onus is on them to qualify for a visa which does not require a LOR.
As for your question about penalties. As I said about both GEPIK and EPIK have a clause in their contracts which threatens to ban your future employment at public schools should you quit without notice.
As for hakwons, the owner could well launch a civil suit claiming harm to his business. Don't know about you but I'd rather not be involved as a defendant in the coin flip that is justice nowadays and certainly not in a foreign court where you have to hire your own interpreter to say nothing of a lawyer.
And as an aside to the discussion while monetary penalties may not be assessed for quitting without notice...they are not banned totally.
Labor law does provide for monetary penalties to be assessed in certain cases.
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Article 98 (Limitation on Punishment)
If a punitive reduction in wages for a worker is stipulated in the rules of employment, the reduction amount for each infraction shall not exceed half of one day's average wages, and the total amount of reduction shall not exceed one-tenth of the total amount of wages at each time of wages payment. |
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