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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:47 am Post subject: Non Payment of salary and potential legal issues |
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So my boss has for 11 months constantly paid all the teachers at my school late and currently I am owed 3 months salary. My contract is up in 4 weeks and I am threatening him with legal action and also striking until he pays in full. There is some kind of "power struggle" with regards to who actually has the legal responsibility to actually pay, between my boss and a " silent partner" of the business.
I have a few questions, I will not be here ( hopefully ) to see the final outcome of the legal battle and will sign over the power of attorney to a Korean friend. Is doing this likely to impact my chances of actually getting the money ?
The more important question I have is that my boss is threatening to counter sue me and the other teachers for as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid.
Will he be successful in this claim ? and am I able to leave the country if this claim is pending against me ?
Any advice is appreciated |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am threatening him with legal action and also striking until he pays in full. |
| Quote: |
| The more important question I have is that my boss is threatening to counter sue me and the other teachers for as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid. |
These are 2 different statements. You threatening with 10 other teachers teaching won't amount to much in the end. However, 10 teachers going on strike can bring damage and affect the owner of the school.
| Quote: |
| as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid |
How does he plan on paying multiple months to multiple teachers when he can't pay 1 month to 1 teacher? Ask him this with a big grin. Then tell him to stop this damaging business crap. He is the only one damaging his business if he doesn't pay his employees.
I would also tell him, "Look, if you can't pay me a full salary that's fine. Give me less hours and when business picks up I expect more pay."
That is something you say to a boss you have worked with and can trust. I know suggesting this now in this case may seem useless but it is a moral stance. You won't get anything but at least you can communicate, "Hey, if you weren't a liar and you weren't a bad guy I would work with you."
Do whatever legal action you can and get what you can. I know some people who got half of what they sued for. At least it's more than nothing. |
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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I am threatening him with legal action and also striking until he pays in full. |
| Quote: |
| The more important question I have is that my boss is threatening to counter sue me and the other teachers for as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid. |
These are 2 different statements. You threatening with 10 other teachers teaching won't amount to much in the end. However, 10 teachers going on strike can bring damage and affect the owner of the school.
| Quote: |
| as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid |
How does he plan on paying multiple months to multiple teachers when he can't pay 1 month to 1 teacher? Ask him this with a big grin. Then tell him to stop this damaging business crap. He is the only one damaging his business if he doesn't pay his employees.
I would also tell him, "Look, if you can't pay me a full salary that's fine. Give me less hours and when business picks up I expect more pay."
That is something you say to a boss you have worked with and can trust. I know suggesting this now in this case may seem useless but it is a moral stance. You won't get anything but at least you can communicate, "Hey, if you weren't a liar and you weren't a bad guy I would work with you."
Do whatever legal action you can and get what you can. I know some people who got half of what they sued for. At least it's more than nothing. |
Yes, now though there are three teachers including myself we all want to strike so it will mean he has to cancel all the classes, which I am hoping will force him into some kind of action.
I have called him a liar and a bad person on many an occasion and it seems to have little influence on him. He and the other owner have admitted that they have the money but cannot come to an agreement on who should pay us which seems really ridiculous to me.
I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will probably have to leave without all my money and leave it in the hands of the labor board, but I am also worried that he can potentially stop me leaving by filing a lawsuit against me for striking, Do you know if this is the case or not ? |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: |
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I am in no way in expert in this. You should really wait for Ttompatz or some of the other experts before you act on any advice.
But, since someone did post on this thread and it does not sound like good advice to me, I'm going to chime in but please wait for Ttompatz or the like before making any decisions.
Now, it is my understanding:
If you go on strike, it will damage your case.
The best way to win your case is to follow the letter of your contract so your boss does not have a "legitimate" reason to complain about you.
Take your evidence and go to the labor board and if your evidence is accurate, there is a very high chance you will win your case (assuming you don't strike).
Next, you need to be at the hearings. Even if you have a power of attourney, you need to be there. I think there is a very high chance the labor board will not rule on your case if you are not there.
Lastly, you cannot get blood from turnips. If your boss/the company you work for does not have any money, you can win your case and still end up with nothing.
On the other hand, I've read stories here on Dave's where the labor board just shows up at the academy and starts putting stickers on everything - basically holding the academy owner's property for sale in liu of payment.
But, all of this can (as in sometimes) a lengthy process.
But, my bottom line advice is wait until Ttompatz gives you some advice. He generally knows more about these things than most. There are a few others who have been through the process and they may have insight as well.
Otherwise be very careful about whose advice you take on Dave's. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will probably have to leave without all my money and leave it in the hands of the labor board, but I am also worried that he can potentially stop me leaving by filing a lawsuit against me for striking, Do you know if this is the case or not ? |
If you choose to leave and not get what you are owed, then go ahead. There is nothing they can do.
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| If you go on strike, it will damage your case. |
You plural or singular? If you go on strike as a group it can make a stronger case in court. They usually settle for half in this case. If you threaten to leave by yourself, the school will give the other teachers your classes and tell you to take a hike. They will say you are a bad teacher and that will be the end of it. Big difference.
The rest of your post hinges on the fact a person will quit by themself, 1 person alone.
However, the orginal poster stated, "going on strike until we get paid."
They used "we" which makes it sound like a group decision. |
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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will probably have to leave without all my money and leave it in the hands of the labor board, but I am also worried that he can potentially stop me leaving by filing a lawsuit against me for striking, Do you know if this is the case or not ? |
If you choose to leave and not get what you are owed, then go ahead. There is nothing they can do.
| Quote: |
| If you go on strike, it will damage your case. |
You plural or singular? If you go on strike as a group it can make a stronger case in court. They usually settle for half in this case. If you threaten to leave by yourself, the school will give the other teachers your classes and tell you to take a hike. They will say you are a bad teacher and that will be the end of it. Big difference.
The rest of your post hinges on the fact a person will quit by themself, 1 person alone.
However, the orginal poster stated, "going on strike until we get paid."
They used "we" which makes it sound like a group decision. |
I think you misunderstood me a little regarding when I want to leave, I have 4 weeks left and I am not going to leave until those 4 weeks are up, but I am also not going to stay once the contract is finished in order to fight the legal battle.
Im hoping that as long as I file the claim before I leave I do not have to be present at the meetings. I was told by the labor board that my power of attorney can attend these meetings for me.
At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes and leave with a small loss rather than leave now and suffer a big loss.
There are no other teachers to cover our classes so im certain that will not happen, so short of firing us and closing the school I cant really see what else he can do other than give us at least some of the pay.
Saying that though, in 11 years of work history I have never worked for a lying, cheating rat before so anything he does would not come as a huge surprise. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Your boss knows you aren't willing to stay and fight for your money.
I've been in that exact situation. I had to walk away. The labor board was
useless where I was working. (but they may be better where you are)
If you're going to fight it, take it to the labor office now.
I was told that in those areas where the labor office actually does something,
they usually will take your case seriously once you reach 2 months of unpaid
wages. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Im hoping that as long as I file the claim before I leave I do not have to be present at the meetings. I was told by the labor board that my power of attorney can attend these meetings for me. |
I do understand you but that's not how I win my battles. I look my enemy in the eye.
| Quote: |
At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes and leave with a small loss rather than leave now and suffer a big loss.
There are no other teachers to cover our classes so im certain that will not happen, so short of firing us and closing the school I cant really see what else he can do other than give us at least some of the pay.
Saying that though, in 11 years of work history I have never worked for a lying, cheating rat before so anything he does would not come as a huge surprise. |
All that gobbledygook contradicts attorney by proxy. Choose one tactic and go with it.
1. Work your hours and collect. If you don't work, how do you expect to be compensated?
2. Don't work and leave.
NO FLIP FLOPPIN!!! This isn't a presidential election.
Last edited by YTMND on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Im hoping that as long as I file the claim before I leave I do not have to be present at the meetings. I was told by the labor board that my power of attorney can attend these meetings for me. |
I do understand you but that's now how I win my battles. I look my enemy in the eye.
| Quote: |
At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes and leave with a small loss rather than leave now and suffer a big loss.
There are no other teachers to cover our classes so im certain that will not happen, so short of firing us and closing the school I cant really see what else he can do other than give us at least some of the pay.
Saying that though, in 11 years of work history I have never worked for a lying, cheating rat before so anything he does would not come as a huge surprise. |
All that gobbly gook contradicts attorney by proxy. Choose one tactic and go with it.
1. Work your hours and collect. If you don't work, how do you expect to be compensated?
2. Don't work and leave.
NO FLIP FLOPPIN!!! |
Thats all well and good but I have another job in a different country so I cant stay and wait 4, 5 6 months for a legal outcome. I dont want another job in Korea and I will have nowhere to live sooooo looking him in the eye during a labor board meeting is not possible.
I want get out of this hell hole as fast as possible and with as much of what is owed to me, then i will leave and see what the legal outcome is via my power of attorney.
I would choose one tactic and stick with it, but when you are dealing with an enemy who changes tactics and stories on an almost weekly basis sometimes that is not possible. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| adzee1 wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Im hoping that as long as I file the claim before I leave I do not have to be present at the meetings. I was told by the labor board that my power of attorney can attend these meetings for me. |
I do understand you but that's now how I win my battles. I look my enemy in the eye.
| Quote: |
At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes and leave with a small loss rather than leave now and suffer a big loss.
There are no other teachers to cover our classes so im certain that will not happen, so short of firing us and closing the school I cant really see what else he can do other than give us at least some of the pay.
Saying that though, in 11 years of work history I have never worked for a lying, cheating rat before so anything he does would not come as a huge surprise. |
All that gobbly gook contradicts attorney by proxy. Choose one tactic and go with it.
1. Work your hours and collect. If you don't work, how do you expect to be compensated?
2. Don't work and leave.
NO FLIP FLOPPIN!!! |
Thats all well and good but I have another job in a different country so I cant stay and wait 4, 5 6 months for a legal outcome. I dont want another job in Korea and I will have nowhere to live sooooo looking him in the eye during a labor board meeting is not possible.
I want get out of this hell hole as fast as possible and with as much of what is owed to me, then i will leave and see what the legal outcome is via my power of attorney.
I would choose one tactic and stick with it, but when you are dealing with an enemy who changes tactics and stories on an almost weekly basis sometimes that is not possible. |
You want to get money without working, he wants to not pay with you working. I honestly don't see how either of you are angels thinking this way or which one is worse.
You reap what you sow. |
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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| adzee1 wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Im hoping that as long as I file the claim before I leave I do not have to be present at the meetings. I was told by the labor board that my power of attorney can attend these meetings for me. |
I do understand you but that's now how I win my battles. I look my enemy in the eye.
| Quote: |
At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes and leave with a small loss rather than leave now and suffer a big loss.
There are no other teachers to cover our classes so im certain that will not happen, so short of firing us and closing the school I cant really see what else he can do other than give us at least some of the pay.
Saying that though, in 11 years of work history I have never worked for a lying, cheating rat before so anything he does would not come as a huge surprise. |
All that gobbly gook contradicts attorney by proxy. Choose one tactic and go with it.
1. Work your hours and collect. If you don't work, how do you expect to be compensated?
2. Don't work and leave.
NO FLIP FLOPPIN!!! |
Thats all well and good but I have another job in a different country so I cant stay and wait 4, 5 6 months for a legal outcome. I dont want another job in Korea and I will have nowhere to live sooooo looking him in the eye during a labor board meeting is not possible.
I want get out of this hell hole as fast as possible and with as much of what is owed to me, then i will leave and see what the legal outcome is via my power of attorney.
I would choose one tactic and stick with it, but when you are dealing with an enemy who changes tactics and stories on an almost weekly basis sometimes that is not possible. |
You want to get money without working, he wants to not pay with you working. I honestly don't see how either of you are angels thinking this way or which one is worse.
You reap what you sow. |
Where at any point did I say I HAD stopped working ?
I said I am OWED 3 months wages and am thinking about threatening my boss with a strike.
I have worked every class up until now, and if I think he will pay me I will continue to work. I only want to threaten him in the hope that it will speed up the process of getting the money. The school cannot function if myself and the other 2 teachers stop working so then he will have to do something drastic... like PAY US.... or close the school.
I told him about going to the labor board and he said fine, he does not care about that so the only card I have left which can hurt him is to stop the classes.
Your attitude really is questionable and although I appreciate you commenting you have been of no help whatsoever with regards to my original questions. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Where at any point did I say I HAD stopped working ? |
"At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes"
| Quote: |
| Your attitude really is questionable and although I appreciate you commenting you have been of no help whatsoever with regards to my original questions. |
It went from sympathy to seeing the angle you are playing. If you want to not work, piss off the boss, then leave then that is fine. However, if you were the boss and your employees didn't work, would you pay them? Come on, use some common sense.
Try it though, that is how rich become rich and stay rich. They steal from the poor and they make sure they are financed without doing the work themselves. I am told in China that by separating the trash like I do I am putting some Chinese person out of a job. |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Non Payment of salary and potential legal issues |
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[
The more important question I have is that my boss is threatening to counter sue me and the other teachers for as he puts it " damaging his business" by going on strike until we get paid.
Will he be successful in this claim ? and am I able to leave the country if this claim is pending against me ?
Any advice is appreciated |
[/quote]
Gosh, I'm sorry this has befallen you.
The only two cents I have to contribute is that the laws in Korea work a little differently than in the Western world.
Yes, he can "sue" you if you cause damage to his school's business or reputation, according to Korean Law. Even saying something negative about a business(even if it is true) can get you in BIG trouble in this country. Striking, I am sure is on the list of what "not" to do in Korea.
Having said all this, a few years ago,I walked out of a school just before it was time to teach. I promised to return in 10 minutes if ALL the money that was owed me showed up (either in my hand or in the bank)within that time frame. Guess what? In about five minutes, I became an instant multi- millionaire (in won). I was nervous as heck, but it was worth a shot to get my cash! My boss ran to the bank, and then ran behind me as I was heading home.
Do whatever you think you need to do.I hope you get your money. It angers me that schools are still behaving this way! |
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adzee1
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| Where at any point did I say I HAD stopped working ? |
"At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes"
| Quote: |
| Your attitude really is questionable and although I appreciate you commenting you have been of no help whatsoever with regards to my original questions. |
It went from sympathy to seeing the angle you are playing. If you want to not work, piss off the boss, then leave then that is fine. However, if you were the boss and your employees didn't work, would you pay them? Come on, use some common sense.
Try it though, that is how rich become rich and stay rich. They steal from the poor and they make sure they are financed without doing the work themselves. I am told in China that by separating the trash like I do I am putting some Chinese person out of a job. |
Please read the part you quoted from me... its says " are considering" that means we have not actually done yet.
We have worked, and the boss has not paid us so your " common sense" point is irrelevant.
If you do not have anything useful to say, why say anything at all. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| adzee1 wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Where at any point did I say I HAD stopped working ? |
"At this stage me and the other teachers are considering just sitting in the teachers room for 4 weeks until we at least get some of the money and then Im willing to restart classes"
| Quote: |
| Your attitude really is questionable and although I appreciate you commenting you have been of no help whatsoever with regards to my original questions. |
It went from sympathy to seeing the angle you are playing. If you want to not work, piss off the boss, then leave then that is fine. However, if you were the boss and your employees didn't work, would you pay them? Come on, use some common sense.
Try it though, that is how rich become rich and stay rich. They steal from the poor and they make sure they are financed without doing the work themselves. I am told in China that by separating the trash like I do I am putting some Chinese person out of a job. |
Please read the part you quoted from me... its says " are considering" that means we have not actually done yet.
We have worked, and the boss has not paid us so your " common sense" point is irrelevant.
If you do not have anything useful to say, why say anything at all. |
So, you are allowed to consider a possibility and I am not allowed to consider as well? Only you are allowed to guess, but I have to give you concrete facts and program you like a robot?
Just as you considered, I considered the following (before):
1. Work your hours and collect. If you don't work, how do you expect to be compensated?
2. Don't work and leave.
The final choice is yours. I am only here looking at what you are considering and giving my suggestions. |
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