|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: New hiring rules for universities. MA+2 yrs, BA+4 yrs exp. |
 |
|
This came from our boss today:
| Quote: |
| "... the main office informed me this Monday morning that from this time the university cannot accept anyone who doesn't have four years' university teaching experience according to the government regulations, which seemed to be issued last year: Two years' university teaching experience is required for an MA holder, and four years for a BA holder. The reason I mention this story is that you need to know the new condition issued by the Ministry of Education." |
Our university just finished hiring yesterday. Basically, it seems like you are out of luck if you don't have the above experience. Have heard rumors of this being passed, but it never seemed to take... guess it has. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| How would you get hired? If no one has any uni experience. Doesn't make sense. Maybe public school teaching is included in this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheolsu
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: New hiring rules for universities. MA+2 yrs, BA+4 yrs ex |
|
|
| Sorry, I refuse to believe that until someone can show me a link in Korean. People with master's degrees are hired at universities all over the world for non-tenure track teaching positions. This law would effectively make it illegal for anyone without a PhD to teach at a university, with exceptions granted to those who have two years of experience and an MA or, perplexingly, four years of experience and a BA. Are there university instructors with just a BA teaching anywhere in this country outside of English departments? This seems so specific to the world of EFL in Korea that I can't believe it's a law, though I would be willing to suspend my disbelief and apologize if someone can show me a link in Korean stating otherwise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Every year (or more often) somone posts something like this.
I've heard nothing about it. If that came into effect about half of the foreign staff at this uni would be let go.
This may be for certain teaching positions, but certainly not the kinds of positions that most of the """""""""""professors""""""""""" have here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yep, I've seen a few of these on Daves.
The university prefers these qualifications because it gets them more research funding. Yes, public school teaching experience does count. Actually on recollection it's a Masters plus 1 year and a Bachelor plus 2 years. This is the same requirement for Korean staff to obtain research funding.
If uni's are asking for more than this, it's because they can. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Guys, I was of the same mind as you, although I expected it to eventually happen.
Our school seems not to know a darn thing until they're forced to move quickly to comply. Actually, I've "informed" them of a few new rules before they knew, simply because I read teaching websites.
I knew that, if our school ever actually complied with such a rule about MA's/BA's, it would have to be the new law of the land from the MOE.
In the past, I've said, "I'll believe it when I see it." Well, now I've seen it, and I believe it. I'm sure there will be some chatter about this tonight, as we have a monthly meeting. We have more than a few BA's on staff, and most of them do not have 4 years of experience. I'll be curious to hear if these people are allowed to stay, but I can tell you this -- our school isn't making this up as an excuse to push some people out, because a few of our BA teachers are very much loved by the Korean staff.
In short, my school wouldn't be complying with this easily, unless it were law. That's why I believe it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is textbook Korea really.
While I'm doubtful it's "law" I wouldn't be that surprised.
Step 1. Pass a law which sets certain requirements. (These requirements don't necessarily have to have value, and may serve to be nothing more than a bunch of hoops to jump through).
Step 2. See if you can get enough teachers under those regulations, if not scrap the law.
Step 3. Repeat the previous two steps.
Note: At any point, if the raise in hiring standards is coupled with a rise in salaries you're doing it wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Back home when someone tells me something is the law i have one question.
Under what act?
It's not in the Private Schools Act, so is it in a presidential decree? Is it really law?
Proviso: I rely on English translations of acts as my Korean is almost non-existent and some acts contain Chinese characters. The English translations aren't always the most current. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Otherside wrote: |
This is textbook Korea really.
While I'm doubtful it's "law" I wouldn't be that surprised.
Step 1. Pass a law which sets certain requirements. (These requirements don't necessarily have to have value, and may serve to be nothing more than a bunch of hoops to jump through).
|
It's mostly arbitrary and superficial stuff they are worried about, even in the interview process.
A place I worked at suddenly wanted people with PHD's for their new crop. Management didn't push us out, but they started saying we weren't "qualified" enough (after highly praising us the year before). This was probably to justify freezing the raises and removing the housing options.
Management automatically assumed they were getting a better deal, but the PHD group they hired were the biggest group of kooks ever.
Zero people skills, fairly incompetent, the trainees and students hated them. One of them mumbled and could barely look anyone in the eyes.
There were no foreigners on the hiring staff to vet out the wierdos, so Korean management hired a bunch of freaks. The choices made the foreign team look even worse, and management continued to pull benefits, while bragging about how many PHD's they had on staff, maybe so they could get more funding. The decision certainly wasn't about quality, that's for sure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Grumpy Senator
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| This is not nation-wide, just for your school. No legislation regarding this has been passed by the Korean government. Last I heard, they were looking to require Masters' degree (or higher) for instructors of all credit-level classes in university, but that is likely a few years away. My guess is that your uni is located in Seoul (or another big metro-area) and is upping the qualifications in order to reach some incentive level from the government. The uni experience they are referring to, for those with just a BA, is experience gained from schools outside the big cities. It is always recommended on here, that if you do not have a Masters' you should look for unis in more rural areas in order to build your resume. Seems to me that this advice is becoming the required path now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If this rule were to be made it would not need to be legislated on in the House of Government. The Education Department has delegated authority to set rules and regulations for aspects of higher education within limits and you would see this being a simple rule change by them. It would be a REGULATION not a LAW. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:44 am Post subject: Re: New hiring rules for universities. MA+2 yrs, BA+4 yrs ex |
|
|
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
This came from our boss today:
| Quote: |
...according to the government regulations, which seemed to be issued last year: Two years' university teaching experience is required for an MA holder, and four years for a BA holder.
The reason I mention this story is that you need to know the new condition issued by the Ministry of Education." |
Our university just finished hiring yesterday. Basically, it seems like you are out of luck if you don't have the above experience. Have heard rumors of this being passed, but it never seemed to take... guess it has. |
Taiwan did this a long time ago. But, the MoE doesn't allow any B.A. holders to teach at the university level. I wonder if Korea will go the same way. I've heard that in Taiwan that the MoE licenses the foreign lectures who are hired and meet the criteria. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Grumpy Senator wrote: |
| This is not nation-wide, just for your school. No legislation regarding this has been passed by the Korean government. Last I heard, they were looking to require Masters' degree (or higher) for instructors of all credit-level classes in university, but that is likely a few years away. My guess is that your uni is located in Seoul (or another big metro-area) and is upping the qualifications in order to reach some incentive level from the government. The uni experience they are referring to, for those with just a BA, is experience gained from schools outside the big cities. It is always recommended on here, that if you do not have a Masters' you should look for unis in more rural areas in order to build your resume. Seems to me that this advice is becoming the required path now. |
Neither you nor I are exactly sure at this point. All we have to go on is what you see here. It could very well be that schools were told this is going to become rule soon, and to make sure their teachers meet the criteria so that they don't face problems. Or, it could now be the new law, but the MOE won't likely be acting on it immediately. It's possible they're giving notice that they'll be investigating schools when they feel the need (scare tactic).
There is, as you can see in the OP, the line about investigations.
The MOE, as I understand it, can pass rules/educational laws like this without the need for some big government vote. It's far easier than that.
Until we see an actual Korean document, both you and I are guessing in the dark. I'm just going off of what I have been told by our boss. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| If this rule were to be made it would not need to be legislated on in the House of Government. The Education Department has delegated authority to set rules and regulations for aspects of higher education within limits and you would see this being a simple rule change by them. It would be a REGULATION not a LAW. |
Yes, unelected civil servants making rules happens everywhere even in so called democracies like the US and Australia.
If this is the situation then it would vary by MOE.
I know as far as hagwon teacher registration both Incheon and Busan MOE have the most draconian and xenophobic regulations of any MOEs in the country.
However I still think that a lot of universities sometimes get confused between the reality and what they tell staff the reality is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: New hiring rules for universities. MA+2 yrs, BA+4 yrs ex |
|
|
| I'm With You wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
This came from our boss today:
| Quote: |
...according to the government regulations, which seemed to be issued last year: Two years' university teaching experience is required for an MA holder, and four years for a BA holder.
The reason I mention this story is that you need to know the new condition issued by the Ministry of Education." |
Our university just finished hiring yesterday. Basically, it seems like you are out of luck if you don't have the above experience. Have heard rumors of this being passed, but it never seemed to take... guess it has. |
Taiwan did this a long time ago. But, the MoE doesn't allow any B.A. holders to teach at the university level. I wonder if Korea will go the same way. I've heard that in Taiwan that the MoE licenses the foreign lectures who are hired and meet the criteria. |
What's the deal with Taiwan? Did they start their ESL industry much earlier or something? Things seem so restrictive there compared to Korea. I don't think they pay that much more do they? Korea and Taiwan seem at a similiar level of economic development. Though Korea seems to have more modern buildings and safe drinking water (which Taiwan doesn't). Is there that many people wanting to go teach there that their market is so saturated and they get away with being this strict? I can understand Japan, but.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
