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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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 Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: My CELTA plan--any flaws? |
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Hello all,
I live in South Carolina in the US and am gearing up for the public school positions in Korea early next year. 28 year old male with a bachelor's degree in English but no hands-on teaching experience.
I've been checking out the different certifications and happened across the TEFL first, but I was trying to do it online and it looks like those are a waste. I then found the CELTA and it appears that it's the gold standard credential.
I dismissed it at first because the courses are taught in a classroom and the closest place that offers it is in Atlanta, GA, which is about 3 hours from me. I don't have anyone I could stay with in Atlanta and can't incur the expense of quitting my job and paying for a hotel for 4 weeks (in addition to the cost of the certification).
However, I looked around a bit more and found that it's offered in Miami, FL where my grandparents live. Here's the website I'm referencing:
http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-qualifications/celta/
They're offering the course during the month of November, so here's my plan:
1. Sign up for the course and move in with my grandparents in November.
2. Hang out in Miami a couple of months. I don't know if I'd be able to get a short-term job lined up but I have enough money to survive even if I don't.
3. Leave for Korea around February.
So, regarding this plan and the CELTA, here's why I'm posting this information here:
1. Regarding the CELTA, does it look legitimate? I don't want to pay $2500 for something unless I know it will be recognized by countries like Korea, Japan, and China.
2. Do you see any huge flaws with my plan?
3. If I receive the certificate in late November or early December, will that be enough time for it to be included with my application paperwork for the jobs in the spring? Or, if not, can my paperwork be updated shortly thereafter?
4. I have an English degree with some tutoring experience and will presumably have the CELTA under my belt. Oh, and I'm white, I have a North American accent, and I'm not horribly disfigured. Do I stand a pretty good chance of landing a position in the spring? I'll be quitting my job and my funds will be low (but not depleted) after the 2 months of being out of work. I'm going all in on this and it'd suck not to land a position.
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: My CELTA plan--any flaws? |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
1. Regarding the CELTA, does it look legitimate? I don't want to pay $2500 for something unless I know it will be recognized by countries like Korea, Japan, and China.
2. Do you see any huge flaws with my plan?
3. If I receive the certificate in late November or early December, will that be enough time for it to be included with my application paperwork for the jobs in the spring? Or, if not, can my paperwork be updated shortly thereafter?
4. I have an English degree with some tutoring experience and will presumably have the CELTA under my belt. Oh, and I'm white, I have a North American accent, and I'm not horribly disfigured. Do I stand a pretty good chance of landing a position in the spring? I'll be quitting my job and my funds will be low (but not depleted) after the 2 months of being out of work. I'm going all in on this and it'd suck not to land a position.
Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
1) It is the "gold standard" of ESOL courses and has global recognition BUT CELTA means Certificate in English Language Teaching to ADULTS.
IF you will be teaching kids (the vast majority of jobs in Asia) then you may want to add the YL module to your CELTA course.
2) No, provided you get along with your grandparents and they don't mind a border for a few months.
3) You should be fine.
4) Chances of decent employment SOMEWHERE (if not Korea then China, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia) as an EFL teacher are 100%. The gross wages across the different countries may be very dissimilar but the net savings potential (jingle in your jeans at the end of the year) are about the same.
5) As well as your CELTA you need to get on the ball to get your other documents ready in time. They can take a couple of months to get processed.
.. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: My CELTA plan--any flaws? |
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| Quote: |
1) It is the "gold standard" of ESOL courses and has global recognition BUT CELTA means Certificate in English Language Teaching to ADULTS.
IF you will be teaching kids (the vast majority of jobs in Asia) then you may want to add the YL module to your CELTA course. |
Hmm. The YL module isn't offered anywhere in North America so that wouldn't be possible for me at this point. So for the purposes of securing a teaching position in Asia, would it be more beneficial for me to either:
A) Get a TEFL certificate instead, and if so, how do I find a reputable TEFL program? All of them look like snake oil online. It's like all those marketing guys on the web who say, "I'll teach you to be RICH! All you have to do is buy my book for $109.99..."
OR
B) Get the CELTA now and add the YL module later once I'm overseas. As you say, it's the gold standard for ESOL courses, so maybe it wouldn't be as helpful in the short term but it seems like it could be more beneficial over time, especially if I end up teaching adults or teaching somewhere other than Asia.
There's always Option C, which would be to just save the money for now... |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: My CELTA plan--any flaws? |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
Hello all,
I live in South Carolina in the US and am gearing up for the public school positions in Korea early next year. 28 year old male with a bachelor's degree in English but no hands-on teaching experience. |
You'll go far in the ESL world with a degree in English, you'll go even farther with a license from the US. So why not stay another year and spend your money on getting a teaching license? If not a US license then rather than taking a CELTA in Georgia why not spend $1400 US on taking a TESOL course in Thailand? You get to visit Thailand and get your TESOL at the same time. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:32 am Post subject: |
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$1700 will get you a CELTA in BKK. $2100 with room.
OP: If you are only going to do Korea then go cheap.
If you want something with global recognition then go CELTA, SIT or Trinity cert TESOL.
You can always pick up the YL later. EPIK/GEPIK won't care.
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So why not stay another year and spend your money on getting a teaching license? If not a US license then rather than taking a CELTA in Georgia why not spend $1400 US on taking a TESOL course in Thailand? You get to visit Thailand and get your TESOL at the same time. |
Regarding the first option of staying in the US another year, the job I have now appears to be coming to an end (I work for a startup) and I've had a TERRIBLE time finding work over the past few years, so I'm afraid if I stay another year I may find myself unemployed again for an extended period of time.
Additionally, though, I've been ready to teach overseas for years now and I've continued to put it off. I'm 28...not an old man by any means but a few years have come and gone. I'm afraid if I put it off any longer there will be another barrier that comes up.
The second option of getting the TESOL in Thailand is more of a possibility but it's still tricky. Based on what you and ttompatz are saying, it'll cost roughly $2000 plus airfare, food, and various other expenses. That may be more than I'd be able to afford to pay. With the CELTA in Miami I'd be able to put the $2500 on my credit card and then my grandparents would be providing everything else.
I'd also have to look at the dates for everything and make sure I didn't need to be here in the US to mail/receive information related to the positions next year. Seems like that would be a minimal risk, though.
| ttompatz wrote: |
$1700 will get you a CELTA in BKK. $2100 with room.
OP: If you are only going to do Korea then go cheap.
If you want something with global recognition then go CELTA, SIT or Trinity cert TESOL.
You can always pick up the YL later. EPIK/GEPIK won't care. |
I think my best option may be to start cheap initially and see where it goes. I don't want to try and plan out the next 5-10 years of my life because who knows, I may end up hating being overseas and come back after a year.
So I'll try to find a reputable 100-120 hour TEFL course, preferably in a classroom setting, and see what happens once I've gotten overseas. It looks like the CELTA and the YL module are both offered in Korea, so I could do that after my first year is up. Or I could go do the TESOL in Thailand...the airfare would be cheaper and I should have more savings by that point.
I hope I'm not sounding overly negative about any of this. It's just that I'm trying to weigh my options carefully and there are still a lot of unknowns. I really appreciate all of the helpful information. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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Allthechildrenareinsane
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Location: Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Unless you want to work in a public school, the CELTA or a TEFL certificate aren't requirements for Korea. My two cents would be to save your money for now, look for a decent hagwon job in Korea, get a year or two of hands-on teaching experience under your belt, and then do the CELTA in a relatively cheap locale like Bangkok to either move into a public school position in Korea or a job in another EFL market. |
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thisisausername
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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I did a CELTA and it was pretty beneficial. That being said, as far as qualifications go, it's pretty low. For about 5 or $6000 you could get an actual alternative teaching certification or for 10 to $12,000 an MA in TESOL. Or perhaps an MA in another area that qualify you to teach at many universities. However a Phd is becoming more and more the standard.
The CELTA will improve your teaching and help you understand how to plan effective lessons and carry them out. So maybe take it. But it's not really going to get you a better paying job. If you're thinking of moving into teaching as a career you're gonna want to get better qualifications than just a BA + CELTA. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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What kind of job and money are you looking for? If your goal is Korea for a few years, then the CELTA can make you a better teacher, but the cost is not worth the time input, IMHO.
You are also not from the EU, so your choices are more limited as to who will hire you with your shiny CELTA. It might help you in Taiwan or the arab world, or a half dozen other places that pay chickenfeed, but past that... don't waste your time on a CELTA.
A CELTA won't help you much in Korea, if at all, past a 100,000 won raise at a public school job. Korean public schools have proven year after year that they are not actually interested in qualified teachers. They want young, easily mallable/controlled, CHEAP, preferably attractive people. They say they want credentials, but have no desire to compensate people for them. They seem to enjoy being able to whine about the lack of qualified teachers, while refusing to pay qualified ones what they're worth, or give any incentive to keep qualified people around. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Allthechildrenareinsane wrote: |
| Unless you want to work in a public school, the CELTA or a TEFL certificate aren't requirements for Korea. My two cents would be to save your money for now, look for a decent hagwon job in Korea, get a year or two of hands-on teaching experience under your belt, and then do the CELTA in a relatively cheap locale like Bangkok to either move into a public school position in Korea or a job in another EFL market. |
I would prefer a public school position. For better or worse, I'd prefer to stay away from the hagwon craziness. I understand the public school positions aren't all roses and rainbows either, but there are SO many stories of people getting screwed by hagwons in one way or another.
So it appears that the EPIK/GEPIK public school positions now require a TEFL, correct? |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| thisisausername wrote: |
For about 5 or $6000 you could get an actual alternative teaching certification or for 10 to $12,000 an MA in TESOL. Or perhaps an MA in another area that qualify you to teach at many universities. However a Phd is becoming more and more the standard.
The CELTA will improve your teaching and help you understand how to plan effective lessons and carry them out. So maybe take it. But it's not really going to get you a better paying job. If you're thinking of moving into teaching as a career you're gonna want to get better qualifications than just a BA + CELTA. |
Where can you get an MA for $10,000-$12,000? This is something I'm genuinely interested in but it always seemed like it would cost significantly more than that and I'm trying to stay as debt free as possible. |
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tcatsninfank
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
What kind of job and money are you looking for? If your goal is Korea for a few years, then the CELTA can make you a better teacher, but the cost is not worth the time input, IMHO.
You are also not from the EU, so your choices are more limited as to who will hire you with your shiny CELTA. It might help you in Taiwan or the arab world, or a half dozen other places that pay chickenfeed, but past that... don't waste your time on a CELTA.
A CELTA won't help you much in Korea, if at all, past a 100,000 won raise at a public school job. Korean public schools have proven year after year that they are not actually interested in qualified teachers. They want young, easily mallable/controlled, CHEAP, preferably attractive people. They say they want credentials, but have no desire to compensate people for them. They seem to enjoy being able to whine about the lack of qualified teachers, while refusing to pay qualified ones what they're worth, or give any incentive to keep qualified people around. |
Right now all I'm looking for is a teaching position in Korea that pays roughly 2.1 million Won. That seems to be the average rate. I'm not a certified teacher, I don't have classroom teaching experience yet, and I don't have an MA or PhD so I know I'm not at the very top of the list of candidates, so I'm not trying to be extremely picky at this stage in the game.
To answer your question in a more philosophical sense, I've been trying to plan my life...you know, say things like "OK, if I take this job or do this thing then it will lead to these better things a few years down the road". But the dividends have never come to me the way I thought they would. I put a lot of hard work into 2 different companies and both times it made no difference and got me nowhere. I've been with my current company, my 3rd employer since college, for a little over a year and it's going down that same path for various reasons.
My personal life has turned out about the same. My ex-wife and I got along really well...it wasn't one of those cases where you'd look at the relationship and say, "Oh man, they're obviously not going to work out in the long term". But then she approached the age of 30 and had a midlife crisis of sorts...decided she didn't want to be married and "tied down" anymore, blah blah blah.
I've had this desire to teach overseas for quite some time, so for once in my life I'm just gonna go with my gut and see what happens. I'm scared to try and plan anything. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I might do this for a year and hate it. Or I might try a few different countries, staying in each one for a year or two, until I find something that suits me best and end up making a career out of it.
One alternative--but again, I'm hesitant to make any actual plans for this--is to get overseas with teaching positions and then get back into writing/editing/proofreading/etc. It's something I enjoy but the job market has been so bad here in the US that it may end up being something I just do in my leisure time.
So you mentioned some negative things about Korean public schools in your post. Just to be clear, what alternative positions would you suggest? I don't want this to turn into a Korea bashing thing, but are you saying that Korea as a whole isn't worth it as far as teaching positions go, or are you saying that I should instead steer myself toward hagwons and/or universities? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Korean public schools have proven year after year that they are not actually interested in qualified teachers. They want young, easily mallable/controlled, CHEAP, preferably attractive people. They say they want credentials, but have no desire to compensate people for them. They seem to enjoy being able to whine about the lack of qualified teachers, while refusing to pay qualified ones what they're worth, or give any incentive to keep qualified people around. |
That is certainly true.
I got the top GEPIK pay bracket for 3 years because of my CELTA (and also was not required to attend "inductions").
But that all ended the moment a picture of a blonde american woman landed on my principals desk.
So yeah, celta used to benefit you in Korea but nowadays its immaterial.
| tcatsninfank wrote: |
28 year old male with a bachelor's degree in English but no hands-on teaching experience. |
I was initially in the same boat as you and I found the CELTA invaluable in that way. You'll be teaching real students with full on feedback from qualified professionals. Even now I still regularly remember ideas and concepts that were taught me all those years ago.
Unfortunately the vast majority of eslers are first timers that hit Korea without qualifications. They can take many months to reach a manageable level of teaching, but even then, they will never progress beyond a certain point simply because they don't have the knowledge. They aren't guided by concepts. And years later they are still making basic, ameteur mistakes in the classroom because they never got the right foundation. I don't want to be mean, but this is just my observation.
I can't tell you how many newbies I have seen do the following:
a) Treat the students like friends.
b) Expect total hushed respect while producing boring and directionless lessons.
c) Teaching to their feet, to themselves, or to their navel.
d) Lack basic practical teaching methods.
e) Turn good classes into rebellious ones without realizing why.
f) Obscure the board half the time while students are trying to look at it.
g) Mistake lively student interest for naughtiness.
h) Test students on things they have never actually taught them.
i) Teach at natural speed as if talking to another native speaker, oblivious to the fact the students do not understand.
j) Write with small illegible handwriting on the board.
Now.. all the above, and 101 other mistakes you probably aren't aware of will be drilled out of you if you do a CELTA. I really enjoyed the course, and I highly recommend it. I really wish more people, like you, took their job seriously enough to get a tefl qualification.
| Quote: |
| and will presumably have the CELTA under my belt. |
Its possible to fail btw. Its pretty intense and it will need your daily commitment to get through it.
When I took it, it was taught in groups of 12 and it was fairly usual for them to fail one of the 12 each time. On my course a guy took a couple of days off and then found he couldn't catch up.
| Quote: |
| Oh, and I'm white, I have a North American accent, and I'm not horribly disfigured. Do I stand a pretty good chance of landing a position in the spring? I'll be quitting my job and my funds will be low (but not depleted) after the 2 months of being out of work. I'm going all in on this and it'd suck not to land a position. |
While I know CELTA is a very worthwhile qualification, it is not a vital requirement for finding work in Korea.
With the job market still saturated, it might take you longer than planned to find work. You're american, inexperienced and young so you're in the preferred group, but it all depends on wether they like your photo and how many blonde females have applied before you (true  ). Its not 2006 anymore, you can't expect to find work easily anymore.
First-timers arriving now have to allow for worst case scenarios. As a quick examples these might be...
a) Your paperwork is not accepted, at the last minute, due to the whim of an immigration officer or one who does not fully understand the confusing new regulations
b) You get here to find your boss is an abusive slave driver and you can't face another day on the job
c) Your accomodation is not to the standard described, and is much further away from the job than you were told, and you can't sleep due to noisy neighbours.
etc etc ad infinitum.
So basically, do not come here with no money. Getting a celta is secondary to ensuring you have a safety cushion at this point. |
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thisisausername
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| tcatsninfank wrote: |
| thisisausername wrote: |
For about 5 or $6000 you could get an actual alternative teaching certification or for 10 to $12,000 an MA in TESOL. Or perhaps an MA in another area that qualify you to teach at many universities. However a Phd is becoming more and more the standard.
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Where can you get an MA for $10,000-$12,000? This is something I'm genuinely interested in but it always seemed like it would cost significantly more than that and I'm trying to stay as debt free as possible. |
I looked around and the prices seem to have gone up a bit since 2010.
Now 14K US (£9400) was the cheapest I could find for a good programme. http://www.ioe.ac.uk/study/PMM9_TES9ID.html
Here's some more discussion:
http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/33111-best-choice-ma-med-english-tesol.html
I'll also mention, a friend of mine took an intensive 100 hours in classroom TESOL certificate course at a Carnegie Mellon. She told me that it was stupidly easy and they only had to teach a single 20 min lesson for the duration of the entire course. It cost $1200. Public schools in Korea would probably look at this the same as a CELTA.
The CELTA was actually a little bit challenging. You teach in front of the class for 6 hours over the duration of the course and receive feedback from the other teachers and students.
Actually the more I think about it you just go for it with the CELTA. Even thought I had been teaching for a few years prior to taking it, it really improved my teaching. It's hard to get actual worthwhile teacher training post undergrad. Don't waste your money on some cheaper cert where you learn nothing. |
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