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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:45 am Post subject: I’m Thinking. Please. Be Quiet. |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/25/opinion/sunday/im-thinking-please-be-quiet.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me&_r=0
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A great mind can have great thoughts only if all its powers of concentration are brought to bear on one subject, in the same way that a concave mirror focuses light on one point. Just as a mighty army becomes useless if its soldiers are scattered helter-skelter, a great mind becomes ordinary the moment its energies are dispersed.
And nothing disrupts thought the way noise does, Schopenhauer declared, adding that even people who are not philosophers lose whatever ideas their brains can carry in consequence of brutish jolts of sound. |
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The evolved ear is an extraordinary amplifier. By the time the brain registers a sound, our auditory mechanism has jacked the volume several hundredfold from the level at which the sound wave first started washing around the loopy whirls of our ears. This is why, in a reasonably quiet room, we actually can hear a pin drop. Think what a tiny quantity of sound energy is released by a needle striking a floor! Our ancestors needed such hypersensitivity, because every standout noise signified a potential threat.
There has been a transformation in our relationship to the environment over the millions of years since the prototype for human hearing evolved, but part of our brain hasn’t registered the makeover.
Every time a siren shrieks on the street, our conscious minds might ignore it, but other brain regions behave as if that siren were a predator barreling straight for us. Given how many sirens city dwellers are subject to over the course of an average day, and the attention-fracturing tension induced by loud sounds of every sort, it’s easy to see how sensitivity to noise, once an early warning system for approaching threats, has become a threat in itself. |
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| even when people stayed asleep, the noise of planes taking off and landing caused blood pressure spikes, increased pulse rates and set off vasoconstriction and the release of stress hormones. Worse, these harmful cardiovascular responses continued to affect individuals for many hours after they had awakened and gone on with their days. |
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| scientific evidence shows that loud sound is physically debilitating. A recent World Health Organization report on the burden of disease from environmental noise conservatively estimates that Western Europeans lose more than one million healthy life years annually as a consequence of noise-related disability and disease. Among environmental hazards, only air pollution causes more damage. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: I’m Thinking. Please. Be Quiet. |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/25/opinion/sunday/im-thinking-please-be-quiet.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me&_r=0
| Quote: |
A great mind can have great thoughts only if all its powers of concentration are brought to bear on one subject, in the same way that a concave mirror focuses light on one point. Just as a mighty army becomes useless if its soldiers are scattered helter-skelter, a great mind becomes ordinary the moment its energies are dispersed.
And nothing disrupts thought the way noise does, Schopenhauer declared, adding that even people who are not philosophers lose whatever ideas their brains can carry in consequence of brutish jolts of sound. |
| Quote: |
The evolved ear is an extraordinary amplifier. By the time the brain registers a sound, our auditory mechanism has jacked the volume several hundredfold from the level at which the sound wave first started washing around the loopy whirls of our ears. This is why, in a reasonably quiet room, we actually can hear a pin drop. Think what a tiny quantity of sound energy is released by a needle striking a floor! Our ancestors needed such hypersensitivity, because every standout noise signified a potential threat.
There has been a transformation in our relationship to the environment over the millions of years since the prototype for human hearing evolved, but part of our brain hasn’t registered the makeover.
Every time a siren shrieks on the street, our conscious minds might ignore it, but other brain regions behave as if that siren were a predator barreling straight for us. Given how many sirens city dwellers are subject to over the course of an average day, and the attention-fracturing tension induced by loud sounds of every sort, it’s easy to see how sensitivity to noise, once an early warning system for approaching threats, has become a threat in itself. |
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| even when people stayed asleep, the noise of planes taking off and landing caused blood pressure spikes, increased pulse rates and set off vasoconstriction and the release of stress hormones. Worse, these harmful cardiovascular responses continued to affect individuals for many hours after they had awakened and gone on with their days. |
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| scientific evidence shows that loud sound is physically debilitating. A recent World Health Organization report on the burden of disease from environmental noise conservatively estimates that Western Europeans lose more than one million healthy life years annually as a consequence of noise-related disability and disease. Among environmental hazards, only air pollution causes more damage. |
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Interesting. I've always wondered whether certain cultural factors in Korea contributed to its admittedly limited creativity over 5000 years. I've wondered about three factors in particular.
1. Noise: It is everywhere in Korea, all the time. Clear thinking equires a certain amount of quietness, and that is a rare quality in Korea.
2. Over-heated rooms: Your average room in Korea in the wintertime would put an elephant to sleep. They are too bloody warm. Clear thinking requires cooler temperatures. I doubt very much that any great thought or invention was attained in an over-heated room.
3. No solitude: Koreans seem to dislike being alone, and most things are done in groups. Privacy and personal space are not respected, and these I would assert are necessary for creativity. Inventions and great thoughts are, I would suspect, attained when one is alone, and in a cool and quiet atmosphere. The opposite is likely true also. I doubt that few great thoughts or discoveries were made in noisy, overheated and crowded rooms. And Korea has those in great abundance.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, and getting bumped into twenty times a day couldn't be great for concentration, either.  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| whether certain cultural factors in Korea contributed to its admittedly limited creativity over 5000 years. |
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| Noise: It is everywhere in Korea, all the time. |
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| Over-heated rooms: Your average room in Korea in the wintertime would put an elephant to sleep. |
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| Oh, and getting bumped into twenty times a day couldn't be great for concentration, either. |
Do you see any potential flaw in your premise and the evidence you cite? Any fails of critical thinking?
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| Inventions and great thoughts are, I would suspect, attained when one is alone, and in a cool and quiet atmosphere. |
Yeah, can't imagine a July the 4th hot room full of men screaming producing any great thoughts of significance.
Just as many great thoughts and works are a result of collaborations or teams of scientists working together.
Some writers work best alone. Some work best in an active, energetic room. It just depends. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| whether certain cultural factors in Korea contributed to its admittedly limited creativity over 5000 years. |
Do you see any potential flaw in your premise and the evidence you cite? Any fails of critical thinking? |
Yes. The flaw is...the Korea race began 4470 years ago, not 5000. A bear and tiger wanted to become human. The god 환웅 told them to live in a cave eating nothing but garlic and mugwort for 100 days. The tiger left the cave due to impatience and hunger, then 환웅 came down from heaven, consummating the relationship with the bear, thus birthing the Korean people. 환웅's son, 단군왕검: half bear and half god, established the first Korean kingdom in 2333 B.C. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Since you are unable to critically analyze your own claims, I shall do it for you.
You cite three factors as being responsible for Korea's limited creativity over 5000 years. However the things you cite may not have existed for much of that time.
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1. Noise: It is everywhere in Korea, all the time. Clear thinking equires a certain amount of quietness, and that is a rare quality in Korea.
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Are you saying that the noise levels now and Korean customs now resembled those of say 2000BC-I don't know, 1900AD? You are basing the levels of noise in 2013 Korea and projecting that onto 4500 years of history. Given technology, that seems like a rather poor conclusion to draw.
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| 2. Over-heated rooms: Your average room in Korea in the wintertime would put an elephant to sleep. They are too bloody warm. Clear thinking requires cooler temperatures. I doubt very much that any great thought or invention was attained in an over-heated room. |
Most heating was uncontrolled and haphazard at best prior to the year 1970. Are you really claiming that wintertime homes in 1200AD Korea were balmy bastions of warmth?
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| Inventions and great thoughts are, I would suspect, attained when one is alone, and in a cool and quiet atmosphere. |
However the fact that plenty of inventions have been attained in noisy cities, as the result of collaborations, and in Mediterranean or Desert or even Jungle climates would suggest that those are not necessary for invention.
Nice fails of critical thinking. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: I’m Thinking. Please. Be Quiet. |
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| Smithington wrote: |
2. Over-heated rooms: Your average room in Korea in the wintertime would put an elephant to sleep. They are too bloody warm. Clear thinking requires cooler temperatures. I doubt very much that any great thought or invention was attained in an over-heated room.
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Dude, I gotto move into an average apartment fast - it's easy to open windows if it's hot. Otherwise, I've been freezing my ass off in the last few apartments I've lived in - management has been rather economical with energy and getting the boiler temp only up to 15C degrees or so during winter. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Yeah, can't imagine a July the 4th hot room full of men screaming producing any great thoughts of significance.
Just as many great thoughts and works are a result of collaborations or teams of scientists working together. |
Do you think that the ideas that were enshrined in the American constitution were thought up in a day on July 4th? Are you that delusional? Are you that ignorant of American history? They were imported (largely) from Britain and developed over generations. They definitely were not thought up "in a hot room of men screaming" one summer's day in 1776.
As for great thoughts and works resulting from collaborations, that is correct. Nobody here would deny that. But they are normally working quietly in their own labs consisting of a few researchers and later meeting to discuss their findings. Ever been in a lab where people are yelling and making noise? No? That's because they don't exist.
I don't think it's unreasonable (or controversial) to assert that a certain quietness, physical removal from groups of other people, and moderate room temperatures are conducive to clarity of thought. I think if you asked a panel of highly creative individuals they would affirm the importance of these factors.
I think you can safely call off the attack dogs on this one. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ever been in a lab where people are yelling and making noise? No? That's because they don't exist. |
I'm sure at some point those people do debate things and those debates can get heated.
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| They definitely were not thought up "in a hot room of men screaming" one summer's day in 1776.Rolling Eyes |
No, but each person entering there had their own concepts of democracy from England. It was in what form those concepts should take in making a political statement and declaring independence.
Quite conditions can certainly be conducive for some individuals. However, undoubtedly some people and ideas benefited from vigorous debate and social interaction, in particular, those ideas and conceptions which dealt with the human element. Likewise, interaction with another person or people often benefits the creative process.
Lastly, as far as moderate room temperatures, those largely were up to nature before wide-spread use of air conditioning took root. So anything before the year 1900 falls into this category. It would seem that moderate room temperature is not a prerequisite for clarity of thought.Now do those things help certain people? Absolutely. Others find them irrelevant or even helpful.
Anyways, your conclusions about how all of this applies to Korea and your rationale for them were laughably bad. How does the noise of today have any bearing on the Korea of yesteryear? Overheated rooms? First off, they aren't overheated to the people who enjoy that temperature. They are overheated TO YOU. Next, of course is the fact that heating was much more haphazard pre-1970. And "getting bumped into 20 times a day"? You do realize each of those events takes about 1 second to occur, and if it means nothing to you, as it clearly means to Korea, it has no effect. In fact, if you observe when Korean people get bumped, many of them maintain focus on their book or smartphone and don't miss a beat. Might as well say that "Shaking hands 20 times a day can't be great".
Sorry, you failed at critical thinking. Obvious fails of logic. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| You are basing the levels of noise in 2013 Korea and projecting that onto 4500 years of history. Given technology, that seems like a rather poor conclusion to draw. |
I'm not talking about loud speakers or automobiles or technology of any sort. I'm talking about Korean culture. They are exceptionally loud people. Ever sat reading in a coffee shop and a couple of Koreans sit down next to you? What effect does that have on your concentration? How long before you got up and left or moved to another table.? They can't even have a conversation at normal levels. And at home, how are your neighbors? Door slamming, yell-talking, foot stomping, etc. Sure modern machinery has made things worse, but two Koreans having a conversation in a field in 400BC would likely have sent the crows into the trees. If you don't think Koreans are loud, and that noise affects one's thinking process, I don't know what to say to you. I would posit that, as we are all the same animal, all cultures at all times have had issues with noise in relation to the thinking process. There's a reason why library's have 'No Talking' signs and exam rooms are utterly silent. If noise wasn't a factor they'd have Jimmy Hendrix blaring while final exams are being conducted. Yet they don't do that, do they? Why not? Because for every branch of the human family, sharing a similar brain and nervous system, silence is golden - especially where the thinking process is involved. Again, if you were studying for your finals in the library and a group of people sat nearby and started talking loudly, laughing and generally making noise how would you react? How would the noise effect your ability to concentrate and think clearly.
Koreans are loud, and there's no reason to think they were any quieter yesterday. Of course, I'm not saying it's 'the' reason for Korea's lack of great thinkers, and Korea's lack of creativity, but it might be one of many factors. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. Either way, please let us know your explanation for Korea's lack of creativity over millennia. Because it needs explaining. It might be one big problem, or an unfortunate confluence of many smaller cultural factors.
What's your take on Korea's non-contribution to humanity's collective achievements? Because it needs some splainin'. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Smithington do you have any evidence or studies to back up your claims? Any records of noise?
For one thing, I think you are suffering from "reverse loud English". You know how locals here complain about foreigners being loud and English is "loud"? I think you are doing the same thing with Koreans in part. Another part is the density of people and space. Korean coffee shops tend to be crowded and places more for socializing, not studying. You are bringing in your bias and expectation of it being a quiet place. However, it is THEIR culture that views a coffee shop as a place of socialization.
As far as noise, yes some people like quiet. Others like a little classical music. Some people work well with techno or something else. Personally, I am used to studying in a loud library, as my high school back home had little discipline over its student body and the library was often noisy and loud. You just deal with it and maintain focus and stop letting every little thing get to you.
If you can't focus in a noisy environment, you need to practice on your focus and concentration. Like athletes who can tune out the crowd.
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| Either way, please let us know your explanation for Korea's lack of creativity over millennia. Because it needs explaining. It might be one big problem, or an unfortunate confluence of many smaller cultural factors. |
I'd submit that geographic isolation is a primary one. Follow that up with low natural resources, two relatively isolationist powers around it, and that forms the bulk of it.
Another factor would be familiarity bias. I'm sure there have been some great thinkers and writers, but they write in the Korean language and are unfamiliar to Western audiences.
Also, there have been some inventions from Korea, not many, but a few.I'd also say that perhaps they emphasized practical application over invention.
And, as I've said before, Korea may not have contributed much, but it didn't take or harm much either.Other cultures contributed a lot, but they also inflicted terrbile pains on other people.
As I keep on saying, do you think some African sold into slavery or some Native American watching their land being taken away and their relatives killed gives a damn about "contributions" and inventions? The only contribution they felt was suffering and pain.
You have to take the bad with the good. You have to take Hitler with Heisenberg. Concentration camps with rocketry.
Oh but when it comes to the bad stuff, you Korea bashers will squirm and mitigate that stuff away with a slitheriness worthy of a reptile. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Oh, yay. More intelligence from Streelrails. Smithington, I feel your pain. Don't bother trying to argue or logically conversate further. It only feeds a headache and pain in the ass.
Steelrails, you're...amazing. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Yes. The flaw is...the Korea race began 4470 years ago, not 5000. A bear and tiger wanted to become human. The god 환웅 told them to live in a cave eating nothing but garlic and mugwort for 100 days. The tiger left the cave due to impatience and hunger, then 환웅 came down from heaven, consummating the relationship with the bear, thus birthing the Korean people. 환웅's son, 단군왕검: half bear and half god, established the first Korean kingdom in 2333 B.C. |
Beautiful, hilarious.  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
Oh, yay. More intelligence from Streelrails. Smithington, I feel your pain. Don't bother trying to argue or logically conversate further. It only feeds a headache and pain in the ass.
Steelrails, you're...amazing. |
So you believe that Koreans haven't invented anything over the past 5000 years based on how noisy things are now, and the fact that they heated their rooms to hot? Really? Houses in winter in the year 600 were always boiling hot? When was A/C invented?
That's what he claimed. And you're saying I'm the idiot?
Sorry, some people can only get the critical down, not the thinking. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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No darling.
I do not believe that [Koreans invented nothing in 5000 years because of noise levels].
I was giving Smithington some advice. I was NOT contributing to the original topic of this thread, so for that I am at fault.
I also did not call you an idiot. I insinuated that you are a pain in the ass and an exercise in futility. Do with that what you will, Mr. Critical Thinking  |
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