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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: Richie Incognito and NFL Hazing/Bullying |
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Current events or Off Topic? Not sure, but I figured someone else would have already commented on one of the most bizarre sports related stories I have ever seen.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9942777/miami-dolphins-players-discuss-jonathan-martin-possible-return-team
I am sure you know the story, so I won't retell the whole thing, but let's just say the story has taken a couple strange twists along the way. The latest has it that most of the Dolphins team are backing the alleged bully, Richie Incognito, and slamming the alleged victim, Jonathan Martin, for airing the team's dirty laundry in public.
I have to admit, I don't know what to think. Maybe the NFL is a closed club, and hazing is the price of admission. From some of the comments you hear, it sounds like a lot of the players are ok with this.
But here is the part I find bizarre - the black players on the Dolphin's team being ok with Incognito's use of racial slurs, because in their minds he was an "Honorary Black Man". They are backing the white guy who used the n-word and throwing the soft spoken black guy under the bus.??
If you want to read an excellent commentary, read what ESPN writer Jason Whitlock had to say about that.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9941696/jonathan-martin-walked-twisted-world-led-incognito
"Martin walked into twisted world"
"Welcome to Incarceration Nation, where the mindset of the Miami Dolphins' locker room mirrors the mentality of a maximum-security prison yard and where a wide swath of America believes the nonviolent intellectual needs to adopt the tactics of the barbarian." |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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FYI, that is indeed the guy's real name...Anthony Weiner, Richie Incognito, America sure knows how to pick'em.
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But here is the part I find bizarre - the black players on the Dolphin's team being ok with Incognito's use of racial slurs, because in their minds he was an "Honorary Black Man". They are backing the white guy who used the n-word and throwing the soft spoken black guy under the bus.??
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Why is that surprising? Me and my multiracial group friends and roommate dropped racial slurs, probably every single one under the sun, on each other. Didn't much care for the N-Bomb though, not because it was out of bounds, but simply there so many other humorous alternatives out there, same with "Jap". That and people didn't want to come off like a bunch of wannabe thugs. My favorite slur to be called was always the classic Zipper Head. Anyways, there's some standup routine, about when its okay- the worst thing is to be listening to some rap song in the car, rolling 5 deep, and having a couple beers and rapping the lyrics when 3 out of the 5 dudes in the car suddenly drop out for one word. Just sounds weak. Might as well have the other two dudes unzip their flys and get the other 3 to service them.
I know this may shock the PC crowd out there but a mixed group of East Asians, Blacks, Whites, Arabs, Indians, and Latinos was all able to laugh with and at each other and not have it turn into a race riot or teachable movement.
Part of it is the Chappelle Show/Rap/Family Guy/South Park extreme humor culture we all grow up in. It was a reaction to the PC world out there. It was a way to feel out people. See who could take a joke, laugh, be honest, and most importantly was able to relax and chill.
Loyalty was valued way more than "offending" someone. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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But here is the part I find bizarre - the black players on the Dolphin's team being ok with Incognito's use of racial slurs, because in their minds he was an "Honorary Black Man". They are backing the white guy who used the n-word and throwing the soft spoken black guy under the bus.??
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Why is that surprising? Loyalty was valued way more than "offending" someone. |
Yeah, I get the joking amongst yourselves part, and I think what you say about loyalty speaks to why the Dolphins are backing Incognito. Still not something one sees everyday, hence my surprise. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I ain't surprised at all. All sports have it. Some teams are better than others. One of the reasons I think a certain famous hockey goalie retired after just 7/8 years of playing. And he was pretty good, 6 championships in 8 years. He may have not been picked-on, but he probably didn't like the locker room culture. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Martin is a marked man, wherever he plays he has a rough road ahead. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I think the bigger issue for the NFL and the sport as a whole (and to a lesser extent, hockey) is the concussion issue. The NFL is at a real crossroads. When guys like JimMcMahon and now Brett Favre and Tony Dorsett are showing signs of brain damage, that's a real problem as parents are going to start voting with their feet and sending their kids off to play baseball or tennis or basketball.
Add in the mix of labor issues, Aaron Hernandez, player suicides, player murder suicides, coaches collapsing from stress, and questionable team names and you've got a sport that needs to do some soul searching.
I've always been a "let boys be boys" type with this kind of stuff, but even I'm a little leery. There's no way I'd let my kid play football unless they massively improve head safety. The Washington name needs to go. Some serious helmet tech needs to come around or there needs to be a serious rule change. And the commissioner needs to stop worrying about end zone celebrations and worry about guys getting their knees shredded and their brains pureed. |
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El Bandito
Joined: 07 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| As far as getting concussions goes, for a good example of seeing what happens after multiple concussions just tune into Fox NFL Sunday and check out Terry Bradshaw. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, get a room and do it already.  |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I think the bigger issue for the NFL and the sport as a whole (and to a lesser extent, hockey) is the concussion issue. The NFL is at a real crossroads. When guys like JimMcMahon and now Brett Favre and Tony Dorsett are showing signs of brain damage, that's a real problem as parents are going to start voting with their feet and sending their kids off to play baseball or tennis or basketball.
Add in the mix of labor issues, Aaron Hernandez, player suicides, player murder suicides, coaches collapsing from stress, and questionable team names and you've got a sport that needs to do some soul searching.
I've always been a "let boys be boys" type with this kind of stuff, but even I'm a little leery. There's no way I'd let my kid play football unless they massively improve head safety. The Washington name needs to go. Some serious helmet tech needs to come around or there needs to be a serious rule change. And the commissioner needs to stop worrying about end zone celebrations and worry about guys getting their knees shredded and their brains pureed. |
I agree that the concussion issue is serious, and I have no problem with you changing the subject to that if you want to, but why not make a clean break, and stick with that topic? The soul-searching topics that you mentioned in the second paragraph are more closely related to the locker room culture of hazing than they are to concussions. The article I linked to specifically mentions Aaron Hernandez -did you read it? And speaking of stress, Jonathan Martin is so stressed out he has checked into a hospital.
I'm with you on the Washington name change by the way, but the way you stick that one sentence in the middle of the last paragraph where you revert back to discussing injuries verges on being a non-sequitur. You're all over the map, man! |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Jonathan Martin is a marked man, wherever he plays he has a rough road ahead. |
I'm thinking shunned is more like it, which is probably the main reason reason bullies get away with it for so long - the one being picked on is afraid to say anything. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:19 am Post subject: |
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It's a question of loyalty to them. Incognito makes how much? 40 mil/year? drives a black Ferrari, you think he gives a damn about 'bullying'? He knows he's a valuable commodity.
It's one thing when you're selling cookbooks and rely on the PC culture of the television/media industry for a paycheck. You say anything considered out of line and you're toast, but they don't get to call the shots in the NFL. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
It's a question of loyalty to them. Incognito makes how much? 40 mil/year? drives a black Ferrari, you think he gives a damn about 'bullying'? He knows he's a valuable commodity.
It's one thing when you're selling cookbooks and rely on the PC culture of the television/media industry for a paycheck. You say anything considered out of line and you're toast, but they don't get to call the shots in the NFL. |
40 million a year?? Not even the top QBs make that much yet. 4 million a year you mean? Maybe. Offensive linemen aren't bringing in the millions like other positions might be.
If I were Martin, I wouldn't come back. I mean the dude has a degree from Stanford and clearly can do other things in life and do well. I really don't see where he wouldn't have a rough time on another team. Maybe on the Niners and being back with Harbaugh? |
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Jyang486
Joined: 25 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: |
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the elite offensive linemen make 10+ mil a year, but incognito wouldn't be considered one of the elite.
i see and understand why it was done and allowed to happen by the coaching staff. i hear it all the time on the radio about how martin is tough for playing in the nfl, and that he didn't need this to happen to him, that he didn't need to be toughened up. i think on the grand scheme of team play, he did need this to happen to him. there's a difference between physical toughness, which he obviously has, and mental toughness, which he lacked. if you lack mental toughness, then players like incognito will be able to get under your skin during games and cause you to commit penalties, whether it be false start or personal fouls, or blown assignments. opposing players hate incognito because of his ability to get under their skin, but his teammates obviously love him.
teamwork in the nfl is all about trust. trust that you will protect the qb, trust that you will open rushing lanes, trust that you won't make any boneheaded mistakes, and blow assignments. so nfl players tend to trust and back up those with mental toughness over those that don't.
i understand the nfl finally taking measures to reduce concussions and bounty systems, but i think the nfl should allow the nfl players to regulate themselves in these matters.
resorting to a lawyer to defend him and sue, martin is good as done in the nfl, which lucky for him, he has a degree from stanford as bucheon bum said, and should be able to move on from the nfl. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Some of this is on Martin. The dining room incident where players left the table as he was sitting down. That one is done to everyone. It is not hazing just a joke. Martin comes from a privledged background. He has been described as a bit of a loner. the rough humor of the NFL may have been a little much for him. That being said the threats to his family and the racial slurs were over the line. Also a lot of this seems to be about Martin not paying up for a trip to Vegas after he said that he would. Yeah players use rough language, talk about partying and who they are dating, as most people do at work. they do not want everything said in the locker room made public.
That is why i think that his team mates are turning on Martin.h Incognito is a heavy handed lout but a bully?? |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
It's a question of loyalty to them. Incognito makes how much? 40 mil/year? drives a black Ferrari, you think he gives a damn about 'bullying'? He knows he's a valuable commodity.
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3.3m/yr. Or used to.
I was in a pub in the Key West last year and he and some other Fins were there. Most of the Fins were normal (picking up multiple girls) but RI was completely out of his mind drunk. Shirt off, broke a pool cue, jumping around like an idiot.
Very similar to this video:
http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/04/richie-incognito-n-word-bar-rage-video/
Martin wasn't cut out for the intensely aggressive culture. We can't have Gawkers writers/readers playing in the NFL. |
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