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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I've had teachers with qualifications or experience and I've had ones without. The good teachers knew how to make the lessons interesting. They picked articles pitched at the right level to discuss and thought about what vocabulary I might need to take part in a discussion and what questions to ask to lead me into the text. They could answer questions I had about grammar or vocabulary in an easy to understand way and prepared review activities to build on what I'd learned in the previous class. These are techniques you can learn by doing a course. |
Yeah I get that. But I bet some of those unqualified teachers simply sucked because they aren't meant to be teachers. Some people just don't get it regardless of all the pretty pieces of paper on the wall. Funny how I learned how to teach effectively on my own within a few months of experience without any certifications/degrees and only grammar in use to learn some meta language in hand. It's not rocket science as there usually isn't any formal assessment, program development, classroom management/administration etc. The vast majority of "private conversation lessons" are actually just free talking about topics that will engage the student. Throw in some corrections and analysis on what the student should work on (ie overgeneralization on the use if the definite article) and that is usually all what the student wants. An MA TESOL + CELTA or whatever would constitute "qualifications" is simply overkill to teach "how to talk like me." And I hold 2 MAs (one in TESOL/AL completed 100% residentially) and a CELTA so I think I get it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah I get that. But I bet some of those unqualified teachers simply sucked because they aren't meant to be teachers. Some people just don't get it regardless of all the pretty pieces of paper on the wall. Funny how I learned how to teach effectively on my own within a few months of experience without any certifications/degrees and only grammar in use to learn some meta language in hand. It's not rocket science as there usually isn't any formal assessment, program development, classroom management/administration etc. The vast majority of "private conversation lessons" are actually just free talking about topics that will engage the student. Throw in some corrections and analysis on what the student should work on (ie overgeneralization on the use if the definite article) and that is usually all what the student wants. An MA TESOL + CELTA or whatever would constitute "qualifications" is simply overkill to teach "how to talk like me." And I hold 2 MAs (one in TESOL/AL completed 100% residentially) and a CELTA so I think I get it. |
Yeah, I agree. A CELTA plus a bit of experience would probably be enough. Providing as you say, the teacher was generally competent and enthusiastic to begin with |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Are you working in the illegal privates market? if no then it doesn't affect you either. And if yes...well I'm not going to cry too many tears over someone whose illegal gains have decreased. And it's doubtful too many other people who work legally would care either. |
Nerdus Dorkus, the illegal and legal English teaching markets in Korea are not two completely separate unrelated entities. What is happening in the illegal sector is a sign of what's to come in the legal (K-government approved) sector. It is currently impacting legal markets (and will continue to do so in the in the future). If people teach cheap privates, hagwon enrollment will go down. That's just common sense. Those people are cheapening the value of English. People giving away cheap, easy access to the English language are screwing things up for everyone else working as an English teacher here. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Are you working in the illegal privates market? if no then it doesn't affect you either. And if yes...well I'm not going to cry too many tears over someone whose illegal gains have decreased. And it's doubtful too many other people who work legally would care either. |
Nerdus Dorkus, the illegal and legal English teaching markets in Korea are not two completely separate unrelated entities. What is happening in the illegal sector is a sign of what's to come in the legal (K-government approved) sector. It is currently impacting legal markets (and will continue to do so in the in the future). If people teach cheap privates, hagwon enrollment will go down. That's just common sense. Those people are cheapening the value of English. People giving away cheap, easy access to the English language are screwing things up for everyone else working as an English teacher here. |
Maybe for hakwons. But not for regular public schools. Students are LEGALLY obligated to attend school until at least age 16/end of middle school...so it doesn't matter how many cheap privates are taught. And not too many students drop out of school here even after it is legal to do so.
As for hakwons the "keeping up with the Kims" mentality will prevail for the most part. Korean moms will think "Private tutor PLUS hakwon=Plus Good. After all there are plenty of other kids who have both.
Cheap privates for the most part will only hurt the people who teach privates. It's not going to affect that many other markets and the public schools/universities the least. People are not going to stop going to public school and universities just because they have an English tutor giving them cheap lessons.
So no it doesn't affect everyone working as an English teacher here. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Public school positions are being cut, partly because of cost effectiveness. If parents can find native speakers to personally tutor their children for cheap, then why pay big bucks to have them in every school. Public school positions are being cut, and they are being cut big time. Regardless of the reason, a lot of people are going to be forced into the private sector soon. So yes, this issue matters for English teachers in Korea. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Public school positions are being cut, partly because of cost effectiveness. If parents can find native speakers to personally tutor their children for cheap, then why pay big bucks to have them in every school. Public school positions are being cut, and they are being cut big time. Regardless of the reason, a lot of people are going to be forced into the private sector soon. So yes, this issue matters for English teachers in Korea. |
Because not all or even the majority of parents are going to be able to find a native speaker to personally tutor their children. We are talking a few million here as opposed to 30,000-odd native speakers a number of whom don't do any privates in the first place.
If a lot of people are forced into the private sector...that implies they will have jobs. In some cases better than the ones they had and in some cases worse...it balances out. And it only matters for those NATIVE English speakers who work at public schools, not those who work at hakwons, and not most English teachers who are native Koreans BTW.
And most native English speakers go back home after 1 or a few more years meaning that it is a short-term problem for most.
If you are a lifer working at a public school then you should have a backup plan. From Day 1 we were told that public school jobs for NETS were only temporary. It's never been some hidden agenda and people have had nearly 10 years to get used to the fact. More than enough time to construct an 'escape hatch' so as to speak. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If you are a lifer working at a public school then you should have a backup plan. From Day 1 we were told that public school jobs for NETS were only temporary. It's never been some hidden agenda and people have had nearly 10 years to get used to the fact. More than enough time to construct an 'escape hatch' so as to speak. |
Who are you talking about (besides yourself and schwa)? I know of absolutely no one who fits that description (has stayed in a public school for ten years). Have you constructed an 'escape hatch' TUM? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:13 am Post subject: |
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The first thing I saw today when I opened up Facebook was
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need emergency cover for one week starting monday 6th jan to 10th in gangnam. after school position so teaching from 12.30 -5. pay is 125,000won per day.
F visa holding native speaker only. please don't bother messaging if you don't have one.
thanks |
What crap conditions!
Immediately after it was posted, two F-visa holders left comments saying they wanted the job. (Add in the possibility of private PMs, and that's pretty shocking.) The ad poster NEEDS an emergency cover and NEEDS an F-visa holder. Why are F-visa holders accepting such low wages (27k per hour)? By doing so, they are degrading the value of F-visa. Part time work should pay more per hour than full time and work that requires the F-visa should pay more than work that does not. Should anyways. I thought the F-visa was great leverage. Maybe not anymore? They are becoming more common? Guys are being pressured by their wives to take on more work no matter how low the hourly rate? What is going on? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If you are a lifer working at a public school then you should have a backup plan. From Day 1 we were told that public school jobs for NETS were only temporary. It's never been some hidden agenda and people have had nearly 10 years to get used to the fact. More than enough time to construct an 'escape hatch' so as to speak. |
Who are you talking about (besides yourself and schwa)? I know of absolutely no one who fits that description (has stayed in a public school for ten years). Have you constructed an 'escape hatch' TUM? |
Yup, two in fact. You? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Two escape hatches? China and Canada?
Mine is headed towards Colorado.
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Recreational sales weren’t legal until Wednesday, but pot has been legal and free to share in Colorado for more than a year.
So marijuana aficionados gathered statewide to mark New Year’s Eve with a group toke to count down to when sales begin at 8 a.m.
At one party, a 1920s-themed “Prohibition Is Over” gala in Denver, women wore sparkly flapper dresses and men donned suits and suspenders to gather around communal rigs to light up together.
A jazz band played, TV monitors showed “The Untouchables” and revelers gathered around a craps table and several card tables. Most of the smoking was outside, but still the air was heavy with marijuana.
“This is just pure joy,” said David Earley, a 24-year-old marijuana grower form Colorado Springs. “To be able to come out and smoke publicly, it’s truly amazing. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Most recent job ad I saw. Terrible.
1.Location: Dangsan, Seoul
2. Age of students: Kindy
3. Class schedule: 10am-3pm
4. Salary: 1.6-1.8 millon a month ( 400,000 won for Housing allowance)
5. Starting date: Late Feb
I really hope no one accepts that. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Most recent job ad I saw. Terrible.
1.Location: Dangsan, Seoul
2. Age of students: Kindy
3. Class schedule: 10am-3pm
4. Salary: 1.6-1.8 millon a month ( 400,000 won for Housing allowance)
5. Starting date: Late Feb
I really hope no one accepts that.
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For clowning around with kids that is still not that bad of a deal for 25+ year old BA holder with no skills.
1.8 + 0.4 = 2.2 per month. Taxes and deductions would cancel out the severance. The job would require max 25 hours a week. The 1 year contract would net you around 26 million. 25 hours x 51 weeks = 1275 hours. 26 million/1275 = over 20,000 krw or approx $19/hour. That's still good and someone WILL take it.
2.4 million plus housing and benefits is way too much for what is brought to the table. The market is correcting itself after decades of an unjustified artificial premium placed on white skin and having English as a mother tongue.
WT: I don't mean to be a dick, but for christ's sakes GET OUT of English teaching. You seem convinced the sky is falling. If so Do something about it! |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Teaching kindy is clowning around with kids? That's all it is? It is easy and fun? The kids are well behaved, cooperative, and want to listen to and obey the teacher rather than run away, scream, cry, and fight each other? Not really. Kindy is so exhausting for most people. It is considered the least desirable age group to teach for most.
It concerns me wages are falling for pretty much everyone at all levels in ESL. Since you don't teach ESL anymore or even live in Korea, this isn't an issue relevant to you. (Same deal with PatrickGHBusan and Ginormousaurus.) I'm pretty sure others (who actually live and work in ESL in Korea) don't want to lose thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Increased hours/increased workloads for no increase in payment and/or falling wages is not something people want. Some people (not necessarily me, but why should that matter) heavily invested in Korea already and may have even started a family here. Should they pack up and leave when things go south? Can they? Do they have that option? The sky is not immediately falling, but there is a slow and inexorable decline that will continue forever. It is so gradual that it may not be immediately apparent, but it is there.
Wages and working conditions are the #1 most relevant topic to be discussed on a discussion board. Maybe people want to brainstorm ways to slow the decline. Nothing wrong with that, and I wish more people would do it. |
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Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Teach high school in Denver then.
They have merit pay in Colorado.
Look at the Teach for America website. They help with getting certified.
I know two teachers at the Universtity of Colorado at Boulder.
Their jobs are pretty good. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Teaching kindy is clowning around with kids? That's all it is? It is easy and fun? The kids are well behaved, cooperative, and want to listen to and obey the teacher rather than run away, scream, cry, and fight each other? Not really. Kindy is so exhausting for most people. It is considered the least desirable age group to teach for most.
It concerns me wages are falling for pretty much everyone at all levels in ESL. Since you don't teach ESL anymore or even live in Korea, this isn't an issue relevant to you. (Same deal with PatrickGHBusan and Ginormousaurus.) I'm pretty sure others (who actually live and work in ESL in Korea) don't want to lose thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Increased hours/increased workloads for no increase in payment and/or falling wages is not something people want. Some people (not necessarily me, but why should that matter) heavily invested in Korea already and may have even started a family here. Should they pack up and leave when things go south? Can they? Do they have that option? The sky is not immediately falling, but there is a slow and inexorable decline that will continue forever. It is so gradual that it may not be immediately apparent, but it is there. |
$19 an hour is still good for that. I don't care if kindy is exhausting. If an advertisement went up here in Canada for BA holders to work in a pre school for $22/hour (gross before taxes) for 4 hours plus 1 hour of prep, recent grads would be all over it.
And I teach still in the evenings as my second job at a community college 6 hours a week to help pay back debt so wages for ESL across the globe do affect me. A lot of my students are Korean too (although most are Arab). It seems where I work, everyone except the old timers who have a full time benefits package works part time and pieces jobs together. It is the only way now to eke out 50-60 grand a year. These people have MA TESOLs mind you. Some even have their doctorates or are working towards the, at local unis.
The people who chose to marry into Korean culture. They will be fine because of government intervention in the market place by keeping F visas value artificially high. If that protectionist mechanism is taken away however, yikes. They may go bonkers by doing the same/similar jobs for the next 30 years and dealing with the same issues over and over korean culture deals them. They made their bed by staying instead of bring their wives back home and retraining. I know many that have done it. Easy? No. But at least they saw EFL for what it was. Brooks gave some good advice if one is looking to teach as a career. |
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