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A fitting analogy for ESL in Korea
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
I'm trying to learn and contribute new information/have a discussion. Interested in doing that? E-battles (lacking insight/universal relevance) are lame and boring (a waste of time). Let's not go that direction please. Let's talk about making money, the state of the market, strategies to boost one's earnings potential, etc.


Deal.

And my apologies to you for disrespecting you in any way.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
I'm trying to learn and contribute new information/have a discussion. Interested in doing that? E-battles (lacking insight/universal relevance) are lame and boring (a waste of time). Let's not go that direction please. Let's talk about making money, the state of the market, strategies to boost one's earnings potential, etc.

That's exactly what wooden nickels did and you keep knocking his strategy.

What's your strategy?
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My strategy is to ask people to clarify their strategy so we can all learn from it.

(If you have an idea/strategy I'll listen with an open mind.)
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candy bar



Joined: 03 Dec 2012

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
My strategy is to ask people to clarify their strategy so we can all learn from it.

(If you have an idea/strategy I'll listen with an open mind.)


Rolling Eyes And that is what wooden nickels did.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was seeking further clarification, for example how much he charges per hour for privates, etc. Not everything was answered (and remains unanswered) and I was (and am) curious to know and understand more. You too? You are also interested in learning something new/teaching others? Do you have anything meaningful to contribute?
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
I was seeking further clarification, for example how much he charges per hour for privates, etc. Not everything was answered (and remains unanswered) and I was (and am) curious to know and understand more. You too? You are also interested in learning something new/teaching others? Do you have anything meaningful to contribute?


Hi World Traveler

I don't do privates. I do some 1:1 classes at school, though this you may be considering as private. There is a government restriction on charges for grade school students. Thus, I stay within the guidelines to avoid problems. But with adults the rate is pretty much the sky is the limit. Adults can be charged or pay pretty much what they are willing to pay. Sorry, but I never disclose rates unless the person is a prospective student.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wooden nickels wrote:
Adults can be charged or pay pretty much what they are willing to pay.

Yes, I realize that, but how much is this? Like roughly. A ballpark figure.

wooden nickels wrote:
Sorry, but I never disclose rates unless the person is a prospective student.

It's anonymous on the internet. Why would you not want to tell us?
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
wooden nickels wrote:
Adults can be charged or pay pretty much what they are willing to pay.

Yes, I realize that, but how much is this? Like roughly. A ballpark figure.

wooden nickels wrote:
Sorry, but I never disclose rates unless the person is a prospective student.

It's anonymous on the internet. Why would you not want to tell us?


I never give that type of information over the internet. I don't consider anything going over the internet as totally anonymous. I have no desire to post my business records on the internet. That is a private matter.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
wooden nickels wrote:
Your wages might be falling but mine aren't.

wooden nickels wrote:
Maybe it's not easy for you to get work but I'm not having a problem.

Because you have a Korean wife and the F visa. You benefit from a protectionist policy. (That's a big part of it anyway.)




I'm not having a problem either. No Korean wife or F visa here. Can't be all that big a part.

I thought we already went through this before. It's not about having a Korean wife and it's not about having a F-visa.

It's about the person and what he or she is willing to do to make money (legally that is). Yes the E-2 visa is more limiting than the F-visa...but it's not THAT limiting.

If you really want to make money...why not ask around at your school? Offer to do extra classes. Or ask for permission to work at another school if they don't have any extras. Or permission to get another job...say editing textbooks or even making them.
These are a few of the various strategies I've personally employed in the past which worked well for me. Will they work for you? I've no idea as everyone's situation is different. But there's really only one way to find out.
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Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I worked at an Elementary school, I did evening classes at a high school a block away. The high school had called my school and spoke to the elementary English teacher. Then the principal did paperwork to add the second workplace on my E2 visa (which I had at the time). They paid me either 40K or 50K per hour, I can't remember.

So in my case, they found me for the work. But if there is some way you could ask your school if you could go try to introduce yourself to a nearby school it might be worth a shot.

Had another friend at Elementary teaching after 5pm classes at a nearby middle school.

If the nearby school doesn't have a foreign teacher, you could really have a shot.

[In the case of the high school, it was an English "club" during their "club activity" times.]
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting end to this thread:

wooden nickels wrote:
It's much more difficult for F visas in 2014 than in 2007, or 2003.

It's much more difficult for E visas in 2014 than in 2007, or 2003.

It's most likely going to be more difficult in 2015 and 2016.

The are a lot of job ads for E visas and F visas, but it doesn't mean that you will easily get the job.

My thoughts, based on the people I know, Es and Fs are banking much less on the same effort today as compared to the past.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2974478&highlight=#2974478

wooden nickels wrote:
Chaparrastique wrote:
GENO123 wrote:
Just beause something worked or sort of worked out several years ago doesn't mean it still works as well or even works at all.

There are too many ex-korea posters on here claiming that everything is the same as it was when they were here.

The job scene is virtually unrecognizeable compared to even three years ago. A lot of these guys couldn't score a job in korea now if their lives depended on it.

THIS^

10 years ago - 5 years ago stuff doesn't cut it.

There was a time when people would stop you on the street and ask you if you could teach them. I remember having the owner of a school stop me as I was walking by his school and ask if I wanted a job. E-mail a few recruiters and you would have several job offers in a few days. My first year in Korea, I worked at a hakwon that bumped the base pay 100,000, then another 100,000, to get me to work for it.

If I was the average 26 year old Joe on the streets nowadays, I would probably be lucky to find a school that paid the same as my first job here. And, I wouldn't be surprised if it took several recruiters and several weeks/months to get a job offer.

If I was new to this market, I would be headed to China.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2967134&highlight=#2967134
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
An interesting end to this thread:

wooden nickels wrote:
It's much more difficult for F visas in 2014 than in 2007, or 2003.

It's much more difficult for E visas in 2014 than in 2007, or 2003.

It's most likely going to be more difficult in 2015 and 2016.

The are a lot of job ads for E visas and F visas, but it doesn't mean that you will easily get the job.

My thoughts, based on the people I know, Es and Fs are banking much less on the same effort today as compared to the past.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2974478&highlight=#2974478

wooden nickels wrote:
Chaparrastique wrote:
GENO123 wrote:
Just beause something worked or sort of worked out several years ago doesn't mean it still works as well or even works at all.

There are too many ex-korea posters on here claiming that everything is the same as it was when they were here.

The job scene is virtually unrecognizeable compared to even three years ago. A lot of these guys couldn't score a job in korea now if their lives depended on it.

THIS^

10 years ago - 5 years ago stuff doesn't cut it.

There was a time when people would stop you on the street and ask you if you could teach them. I remember having the owner of a school stop me as I was walking by his school and ask if I wanted a job. E-mail a few recruiters and you would have several job offers in a few days. My first year in Korea, I worked at a hakwon that bumped the base pay 100,000, then another 100,000, to get me to work for it.

If I was the average 26 year old Joe on the streets nowadays, I would probably be lucky to find a school that paid the same as my first job here. And, I wouldn't be surprised if it took several recruiters and several weeks/months to get a job offer.

If I was new to this market, I would be headed to China.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2967134&highlight=#2967134


My schedule is booked. Sometimes I will have an empty block or two. Sometimes I have a student waiting for an opening because my schedule/blocks is/are full. Two years ago, it was not uncommon for me to turn away several potential students every month. Now, students flow in and out at an equal pace.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things have changed:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Korea's glory days are long behind it. And I don't see them coming back anytime soon. Conditions across the board (except for a select few) have gotten worse and worse. And the coming demographic crunch is going to make things even tougher.

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
The glory days are gone for good. Add in the net negative birthrate and the increasing "graying" of Korea's population and times are going to get a lot tougher before they get better...if ever.

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
ESL (with the exception of a few here and there) is not a well-paid gig. On the other hand one doesn't generally get into ESL teaching with the idea of becoming rich.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
It is harder now as the saving % of your total income has decreased...

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Korea was more lucrative back then and even until we left it was still a good place to earn and save. The game has changed now as the price of goods and cost of living has exploded. The cost of housing has gone crazy and honestly were I too move to Korea today as a newbie, I do not know if I could do what I did 1997-2008ish. It certainly would be harder financially.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
One thing is for sure, the teaching game has shifted in Asia and in Korea. Other shores offer more lucrative offers in terms of total package (earnings vs savings, cost of living...). Korea has fallen off as a destination and that was inevitable. Most of this affects entry-level teachers with general qualifications (ie an unrelated degree) and limited experience. The better qualified people, tend to have a network (or at least in my experience they do) they can rely on and tend to be better aware of where the better jobs are. Still, even there the market has gotten tougher.
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chellovek



Joined: 29 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Things have changed:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
The toilet is blocked

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Why won't this damn thing flush?

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Nobody got into this cubicle with the idea of wiping their behind

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
It's harder now to find toilet paper that isn't single ply

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
There were fewer skid marks on the toilets as a % of the total bowl area

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Other toilets offer cleaner facilities these days. Entry level people won't be able to find a pot to piss in. More experienced people who went to clown college will find a place to pinch out a loaf, but even then it's tougher.


Christ, I'll say Shocked
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
In the past the first guy might have got more because foreigners were more of a rarity but he doesn't list any qualifications or expertise. I wouldn't pay more than 20,000 for someone like that. I can't think of anyone who'd apply for the second ad unless they're a non native speaker.

OK, how about for someone who does have qualifications? How much is he worth?
Quote:
Hi there Smile Would you like to study English with a British native speaker?

I am a professional English teacher (certified -- MA Education, CELTA) and I've been living and working in Korea for 4 years.

I offer courses in conversation, business, pronunciation, and writing. Each is matched to your needs and interests.

I can also help you prepare for TOEIC, OPIC, TOEFL ibt, IELTS etc.

My prices are reasonable starting from as low as 20,000KRW/hour. I also offer a free trial lesson and level test where we can discuss your lesson plan.
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