| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| From 1984 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Damn!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Terrorism isn't terrorism when you're a freedom fighter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hard to know what's true these days, but I've read plenty of reports over the years that do not paint him or his wife in a very positive light (many that were apparently well-documented).
I'm not taking a stand here to label him as this or that, but I would try to make sure I did some research before I started bewailing the man's passing.
One thing I will throw out though (conjecture) is that he seemed to have been able to somewhat keep a lid on the inter-tribal animosities that may have otherwise boiled over in SA. But then again, I can't claim to know shite about those tensions.
Anyway, maybe Obama can take another wildly-extravagant trip over there with the whole family and make it all about him and what he thinks about Mandela's death. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| caniff wrote: |
Hard to know what's true these days, but I've read plenty of reports over the years that do not paint him or his wife in a very positive light (many that were apparently well-documented).
I'm not taking a stand here to label him as this or that, but I would try to make sure I did some research before I started bewailing the man's passing. |
Yeah. The global drive to turn this fellow into a kind of secular saint makes me reflexively wary. Doubly so given South Africa is a complete mess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
He was a communist terrorist.
Note the the two communist terrorists:
1) Lee Harvey Oswald: Under the influence of right wing Dallas. ( http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/11/nyt-dallass-role-in-kennedys-murder.html )
2) Mandela: Not a communist. No mention.
It's almost as if the media covers for communist violence.
South Africa was better off under white rule. So was Birmingham and Detroit. And everywhere else. White people are really good at running things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you were stuck under apartheid you would have done the same. Violent resistance to an unfair regime is honorable. However, I do agree that the current rainbow nation propaganda is pretty lame. SA is looking like a failing state. The has everything to do with the quality of his successors and the failures of the ANC to support competent leadership. If you want to go a step further I would be glad to support you against Mugabe. Forcing Ian Smith to make a deal with him was absolutely crazy behaviour on the part of the west.
Birmingham and Detroit are the result of the "great society" program. If they had continued new deal colorblind stuff they would both be better than they are now, whatever their racial makeup. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fighting against apartheid was justified. He joined the communists because they were the most powerful group fighting against the apartheid regime.
Once in power there was nothing communist about his rule.
So how can anyone be against giving blacks the right to vote is beyond me? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, good. They fought and they won and now they have to live in the shit hole nation that they're able to build. Like Detroit. Like Birmingham. Like East St. Louis.
| stilicho25 wrote: |
Birmingham and Detroit are the result of the "great society" program. If they had continued new deal colorblind stuff they would both be better than they are now, whatever their racial makeup. |
There are enormous differences in cognitive ability, temperament, impulse control etc between races. Enormous. Detroit is a demographic issue. They are not capable of any better.
Accept this and move on with life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| 1) Lee Harvey Oswald: Under the influence of right wing Dallas. |
You're saying that no one ever mentions Oswald was a Communist? I think anyone who has ever read even cursorily about the guy knows he defected to the USSR.
Even the people who blame the assassination on right-wingers acknowledge that Oswald was a Communist. They just try to explain it away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not 'no one'. People sympathetic to communism.
| Quote: |
| Once in power there was nothing communist about his rule. |
That's true. They privatized the white created companies.
My favorite story about South Africa is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Marcus
| Quote: |
Exile
Both her parents were anti-apartheid activists and members of the South African Communist Party (SACP). They went into exile in 1969, together with Gill, her two sisters and brother. She completed her degree by correspondence with the University of South Africa.[3] She joined the SACP and the African National Congress (ANC). In 1970 she began working for the exiled ANC's Department of Information and Publicity (DIP) in London, later becoming the DIP's deputy secretary.
Return
Marcus returned to South Africa in 1990 after the ANC was unbanned.[5] She established the ANC's Information Department in 1990.
She was elected a Member of Parliament in 1994 and became Deputy Minister of Finance in the Government of National Unity of Nelson Mandela from 1996 to 1999, serving under Trevor Manuel.[6] In 1999 she became Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank under Tito Mboweni. She held the post for 5 years but left due to a personality clash with Mboweni.[3][7]
She then held the Professorship of Leadership and Gender Studies at the Gordon Institute of Business Science, before going into business, initially as chairman of Western Areas mining company and later as non-executive director of Gold Fields. In 2007 she succeeded Danie Cronjé as chair of Absa Group and Absa Bank.[3]
In July 2009, President Jacob Zuma announced that she would return to the Reserve Bank to succeed Mboweni as Governor. The appointment was welcomed by both economists and trade unionists.[8] |
Communism! Gender studies professor to head of gold company to head usurer.
Point is, I don't care he's dead. He's a media creation. Basically, Mandela symbolizes that Africa is for Africans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Gender studies professor to head of gold company to head usurer.
|
Well, if blacks are genetically programmed to be violent, should't we also assume that Ms. Marcus would be good with money? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| catman wrote: |
Fighting against apartheid was justified. He joined the communists because they were the most powerful group fighting against the apartheid regime.
Once in power there was nothing communist about his rule.
So how can anyone be against giving blacks the right to vote is beyond me? |
I agree with this. He wasn't Communist, he allied with Communism and spoke their language to receive weapons and arms. Once he triumphed, he instituted a marginally Leftist economic program.
I cannot speak to the state of South Africa today, but apartheid was wrong. He stood up against it and won. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
