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Former well known Seoul expat/teacher arrested in Cambodia
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Juregen



Joined: 30 May 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellofaniceguy wrote:
MOST are quick to condemn, sling mud, start rumors, jump on the band wagon....well, you get the picture.
But just remember...it could well be YOU that is being accused! And what if you are really and sincerely innocent?
Thousands and thousands have been sentenced to prison, executed only later we come to find out...they were not guilty!

On the other hand....what business does a grown male have taking a minor/boy to a hotel room who is not his son?! Especially in a country where sex with children is well known!

When the evidence is irrefutable...convicted pedophiles...should to be castrated...right in the court room! No passing go...just right from the defendants table to the back room!


He admitted.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
archaeologist5 wrote:
Quote:
but I consider the prevention of child rape more important than saving my face or having to fill out some extra forms


But there is a problem with that statement. CRCs did not stop western teachers from committing certain crimes in this country. Like the girl who mailed herself drugs hidden in a cake nor do they stop the drunken behavior that is very questionable in legality.

How far will you go to prevent a crime no western teacher has committed in this country (that we know of)?


Just because it isn't 100% effective, doesn't mean a bare-minimum safeguard like a background check FOR TEACHERS shouldn't be required.


A background check searching for genuinely applicable crimes might be more reasonable. When you hear about people being denied visas because of some arrest from years back where the charges were dropped, it seems less like a safeguard than like overkill. Ultimately I suppose it's up to Koreans to decide what standard they want, but given the voracity and punitive nature of the American criminal justice system (which is often more focused on extracting fines and filling prison beds in accordance with contractual agreements with private prisons than actual justice), there's plenty of room for leniency without any serious additional risk.
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archaeologist5



Joined: 25 Dec 2013

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just because it isn't 100% effective, doesn't mean a bare-minimum safeguard like a background check FOR TEACHERS shouldn't be required.


I do not share your security hopes. A CRC doesn't stop a person from going off the rails after being given a visa. It is not even a 'bare minimum safeguard'.

I had this argument a few years ago in the Korea Times with Michael Stevens and he was a rabid supporter of criminal record checks being used to weed out undesirable teachers.

Well about 6 months to a year ago, I was reading the letters to the editor and there was one by the same Stevens complaining that the requirement needed to be changed. Why did he change his tune? He was caught with an arrest and possibly a conviction.

The very system he supported did him in and he whined and complained throughout the whole letter.

For me, I am a big supporter of second chances and people with arrests and convictions deserve a second chance-- even allowing them the opportunity to teach. People can and do change. We just need a better system than a blind acceptance of CRCs
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knee-highs



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Location: yes

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

archaeologist5 wrote:
Quote:
Just because it isn't 100% effective, doesn't mean a bare-minimum safeguard like a background check FOR TEACHERS shouldn't be required.


I do not share your security hopes. A CRC doesn't stop a person from going off the rails after being given a visa. It is not even a 'bare minimum safeguard'.

I had this argument a few years ago in the Korea Times with Michael Stevens and he was a rabid supporter of criminal record checks being used to weed out undesirable teachers.

Well about 6 months to a year ago, I was reading the letters to the editor and there was one by the same Stevens complaining that the requirement needed to be changed. Why did he change his tune? He was caught with an arrest and possibly a conviction.

The very system he supported did him in and he whined and complained throughout the whole letter.

For me, I am a big supporter of second chances and people with arrests and convictions deserve a second chance-- even allowing them the opportunity to teach. People can and do change. We just need a better system than a blind acceptance of CRCs


Poppycock. Who are you to tell Koreans what records they should check or that they should give criminals a second chance? So typical, a westerner who thinks he knows better than Koreans. This is their country and foreigners like you should leave your opinions on how to run it at the departure gate when you board the plane to come here.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm for CBCs for ALL people who work with children. That includes not only teachers, but janitors, and security guards. Anyone with convictions of a violent or sexual nature, should be refused hire.

As a parent, I see it as a minimum standard for those that will be in my child's life (when I'm not around).


Last edited by Captain Corea on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

optik404 wrote:
Anyways, my guess is the Korean media won't care about it. Every time a foreigner gets in trouble in Korea, people on Dave's think Korean media will go buckwild with it. I can't even remember the last time that happened.

It's happening now.
Quote:
Unsurprisingly, the drug bust announced Monday is leading to 'new policies' by the local education office.

http://populargusts.blogspot.kr
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Bondrock



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I'm for CBCs for ALL people who work with children. That includes not only teachers, but janitors, and security guards. Anyone with convictions of a violent or sexual nature, should be refused hire.

As a parent, I see it as a minimum standard for those that will be in my child's life (when I'm not around).


I fully agree with you CC.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm for CBCs for ALL people who work with children. That includes not only teachers, but janitors, and security guards. Anyone with convictions of a violent or sexual nature, should be refused hire.

As a parent, I see it as a minimum standard for those that will be in my child's life (when I'm not around).



Really? Are you for CBCs for Dads who offer to take other kids to football practice, authors who visit schools to talk about their books, volunteers who offer to help out at school events. Ok you've shown what a great father you are and everything with that post but would you be happy seeing the act of parents helping out with school stuff dying out slowly because of the extra hassle and expense? On the basis of a very minute possibility that one of these people is a predatory pedophile.
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Bondrock



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
I'm for CBCs for ALL people who work with children. That includes not only teachers, but janitors, and security guards. Anyone with convictions of a violent or sexual nature, should be refused hire.

As a parent, I see it as a minimum standard for those that will be in my child's life (when I'm not around).



Really? Are you for CBCs for Dads who offer to take other kids to football practice, authors who visit schools to talk about their books, volunteers who offer to help out at school events. Ok you've shown what a great father you are and everything with that post but would you be happy seeing the act of parents helping out with school stuff dying out slowly because of the extra hassle and expense? On the basis of a very minute possibility that one of these people is a predatory pedophile.


Well, I'm not CC, but I agreed with CC.

Yes, i think anyone who volunteers to drive kids around or whatever should provide a CRC. A CRC is not that hard to get when you are in your own country. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle when you are out of the country, but still necessary for anyone working close with kids. Including drivers. I'm from Canada and getting a CRC in Canada can be done painlessly if you are in country.

As for expense, in Canada the local RCMP will provide the CRC for free in many cases for volunteers. They did for me when I was a boy scout leader.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volunteering for something is doing a favour, it's not like going for a job. plenty of people would just say they couldn't be bothered if it involved any extra hassle.
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Bondrock



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Volunteering for something is doing a favour, it's not like going for a job. plenty of people would just say they couldn't be bothered if it involved any extra hassle.


Plenty of people?

Well 'plenty' of people never volunteer at all, regardless of the hassle. But in my experience people who do want to volunteer are sincere and will jump through hoops.
For example: a few years ago foreigners on E2 visas who wanted to do volunteer work at Korean orphanages had to get special permission from immigration. And you know what? Some did. I don't know if it was "plenty".

Also, your example of an author visiting a school is not valid. Not speaking for CC, but in my case, I am talking about people left alone with children with no legally vetted, responsible supervisor present. An author or a parent lecturing about their job while a teacher is present in the classroom is not the same as a non-vetted driver with a car full of kids.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are CBCs 100% effective? No. Are they easy to overcome for a determined party? Of course. Are they the best safeguard out there? Obviously not. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have them

It's like metal detectors at the airport to prevent guns. Would this have prevented 9/11? Of course not. Can one get past it and blow up an airplane? Of course. But it does prevent any yahoo from just strolling through with a gun and then firing off some rounds inside the plane and hijacking it. It's a bare minimum. Something that is so easy and can take care of the "low hanging fruit".

I mean put it this way, say there was no CBC. That would basically be open season for pedophiles. "All I need is a degree from a community college and I can go teach around a bunch of children?!?" Same with an airline/airport with no metal detector. The hassle it imparts upon normal people is not so inconvenient as to justify its removal, just like the metal detector at an airport. Having no CBC crosses the line from simply not wasting resources on extreme security measures into inviting attack.

What would you call someone who ran a school and one of their students got diddled by a teacher (who was a convicted pedophile) but didn't even bother to run a basic background check? Negligent and stupid. Like not locking your car and seeing your navigation stolen out of it. And yes, there are some hagwons and schools out there that don't do their due diligence or properly vet their Korean employees. They should be mandated to do so. But that doesn't justify scrapping the laws.


Last edited by Steelrails on Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:10 am; edited 3 times in total
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bondrock. The laws may be different in the UK and Canada but I definitely heard a UK author complaining about this very issue.

I was mainly reacting to CC's quote that

'As a parent, I see it as a minimum standard for those that will be in my child's life (when I'm not around).'

Which would include anyone who pokes their head into a school environment and, IMO is way over the top.
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Bondrock



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to sit back and let CC answer your question. But in my opinion, you are misinterpreting exactly what he meant.
So, let's see how he responds.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

It's like metal detectors at the airport to prevent guns. Would this have prevented 9/11? Of course not. Can one get past it and blow up an airplane? Of course.


The hysterical level of security in airports is a terrible idea. Sick of paying for it and spending time going through it for essentially no benefit. It's a proclamation of human stupidity on a massive scale. Intersting that it's the analogy which popped into your head.
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