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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: Question on Twice more + plural noun |
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This time I'll try to ask a clear question.
He has twice more friends than she does.
Is twice more grammatically correct? Try as I might, I can't find any mention of this in any of my references. Of course Michael Swan says that "twice" can be used before "as.... as", but that's not the same as saying that it cannot be followed by "more + plural noun".
I only found one other related statement:
Multipliers (triple, twice, ten times...) must always be followed by some other determiner. The same reference says that "more" is a postdeterminer, but I don't want to assume that means "twice more friends" is grammatically correct.
Thank you for any comments on this question. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Question on Twice more + plural noun |
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| raewon wrote: |
This time I'll try to ask a clear question.
He has twice more friends than she does.
Is twice more grammatically correct? Try as I might, I can't find any mention of this in any of my references. Of course Michael Swan says that "twice" can be used before "as.... as", but that's not the same as saying that it cannot be followed by "more + plural noun".
I only found one other related statement:
Multipliers (triple, twice, ten times...) must always be followed by some other determiner. The same reference says that "more" is a postdeterminer, but I don't want to assume that means "twice more friends" is grammatically correct.
Thank you for any comments on this question. |
It would be wise not to assume that "twice more" was correct.
In fact, using 'more' with this type of determiner is a bit of a stretch...especially in comparatives.
Once, twice, three times a lady.
One time - once (once more) - but not in comparative usage
Two times - twice
Three times - thrice? end of the line here and markedly old English
Once and twice are irregular forms of multipliers (old English genitive endings) but are extremely common, and as such have common conventions, or collocations, that restrict their usage.
He has twice more friends than she does. - grammatically incorrect
He has twice as many friends as she does. - standard
He has two times more friends than she does. - non standard
When using predeterminers (multipliers) in numerically specific comparatives, much and many are the standard usage.
Pick your poison.
Hope this is useful. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the replies.
As always, The Cosmic Hum's reply was really helpful. Odd as it may sound, I really wish there were more reference materials that gave incorrect sentences, structures, and usages... and of course explained why.
Michael Swan does provide some examples of "Use this...but not this..."
but not nearly enough.
The Cosmic Hum - how about writing Everything in This Book Is Incorrect.... and This Is Why ? It could be a bestseller. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| raewon wrote: |
Thanks a lot for the replies.
As always, The Cosmic Hum's reply was really helpful. Odd as it may sound, I really wish there were more reference materials that gave incorrect sentences, structures, and usages... and of course explained why.
Michael Swan does provide some examples of "Use this...but not this..."
but not nearly enough.
The Cosmic Hum - how about writing Everything in This Book Is Incorrect.... and This Is Why ? It could be a bestseller. |
Twice more is understood, if you are with a friend or even talking down to someone (meaning you have the authority), there isn't much flak that's going to come your way. It only matters in an isolated English research lab where people parse each word onto a vile and look at it through stronger lens than their common sense. Whoever the "expert" is will have their theory and that is your religion.
It's hard to write just one bible, and then all the revisions that come after it? English has come a long way in 100 years, and in twice more time "twice more" might be more useful. It already is on a cellphone. |
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