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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: Break Time Proof |
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| I know you are entitled to one hour of break for working over 8 hours. I also know that lunch counts as break time. However I am pretty certain that I read that time between classes does NOT count as break time. Is there anywhere where that has been stated? I'm not looking for "oh the courts always rule against it" I am looking for something to show my boss. Maybe a case of some kind or labor law? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Have you thought this out?
If he is claiming it is break time, then you don't need to go into the office. You would rather have office time and the break later?
If you are stating you "know that lunch counts as break time." and the hagwon is giving it, then where's the problem?
I am very reluctant to give office time. However, I don't see what argument you would be presenting if he is giving 1 hour for lunch.
Are you wanting 2 hours? That's about 5 classes of 15 minutes for 4 break periods. I have never worked at a school where I was able to get a second hour. I am not saying you want this, but I don't see the argument you are presenting.
You want these 15 minutes to be credited toward what instead? Office time? Overtime? Please explain. |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I wasn't clear. Lunch is not an hour. It is 40 minutes, but then the only breaks I get throughout my 10 hour day are the 5/10 minutes between classes. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| Sorry, I wasn't clear. Lunch is not an hour. It is 40 minutes, but then the only breaks I get throughout my 10 hour day are the 5/10 minutes between classes. |
What do you mean by 10 hours? 10 classes? It's still not clear, and I still don't understand what the problem is.
You teach 5 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon? How many days does this occur? If 5, then you signed a contract with 50 classes? I doubt it. So, let's work with the norm.
20-25 classes, 5 office hours. Let's say you don't do office hours and teach 30. These are 50 minute classes = 25 hours/week. With 10 minute breaks, average 4 every 5 class block = 40/day = 3 hours of break time. Now add lunch, you say 40 minutes = 3 hours of lunch time. That's ~31 hours.
Even if you did 5 hours of office time, that only comes to 36. How are you accounting for 10 hours? Please state what you would want different. Be as SPECIFIC as you can. I can't understand what your problem is besides you might have to work a couple 10 hour days in order to get some time off on other days. If your salary is over 2.2, then might be reasonable to put in more hours, but still not 10 per day. That's a red flag. |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| It is a simple question, if you don't know just say so. All I asked for was proof for what I was asking. Where is it written that time between classes is not considered "break time"? My schedule does not matter other than I am working over 8 hours a day. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| It is a simple question, if you don't know just say so. All I asked for was proof for what I was asking. Where is it written that time between classes is not considered "break time"? My schedule does not matter other than I am working over 8 hours a day. |
To answer your question, we need to know what you agreed to in your contract. Since you can't post your contract here, I am asking you specific questions.
The answer could be to your benefit about 1-10% of the time if the employer specifically agreed to give you this time. However, I see nothing so far that indicates you should leave earlier in order to capitalize on bulk break time. Tomorrow I teach 10 classes. However, they are spaced out 4 in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, and 3 in the evening. On other days I don't teach as much.
Common sense would tell you to give more information. I can't help further until you do. |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| No, common sense would tell you to answer questions when asked. If you do not want to help me then please don't post. The only thing that matters (unless I am mistaken) is that I get 40 minutes of break time for a >8hour work day. Even that doesn't even matter. If someone asks where the bathroom is you do not reply by asking how long they will be spending in there. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| The only thing that matters (unless I am mistaken) is that I get 40 minutes of break time for a >8hour work day. |
You are telling us it matters, but who said so? I have worked in Asia (Japan, Korea, and China) for over 10 years. I have never come across a rule that says you get 40 minutes of break time for an 8 hour day. This is what I have found:
"Working hours per day shall not exceed eight hours excluding recess hours."
"However, working hours for a specific week, and for a specific day shall not exceed fifty-six hours and twelve hours respectively."
Please see also:
"Article 51 (Selective Working Hour System)
If an employer has made a written agreement on each of the following subparagraphs with representatives of workers regarding a worker who is entrusted with the decision to begin and finish works in accordance with rules of employment(including those equivalent to rules of employment), the employer may have workers work in excess of working hours per week set by paragraph (1) of Article 49, or per day set by paragraph (2) of Article 49 on condition that average working hours per week computed on the basis of adjustment period of balances within one month do not exceed the working hours stipulated in paragraph (1) of Article 49.
1. scope of workers subject to this paragraph (excluding workers between the age of fifteen and of eighteen);
2. adjustment period of balances (a specific period within one month);
3. total working hours within an adjustment period of balances;
4. starting and finishing time of working hours, during which works must be provided;
5. starting and finishing time of working hours which are allowed to be selected by workers; and
6. other matters as determined by the Presidential Decree."
"Article 53 (Recess Hours)
(1)An employer shall allow a recess period of more than 30 minutes for every 4 working hours and more than 1 hour for every 8 working hours during the working hours.
(2)A recess period may be freely used by workers."
I don't know what you are trying to achieve. This is what I found at http://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/WEBTEXT/46401/65062/E97KOR01.htm
40 minute lunch and 10 minute breaks for 8 classes a day gives you what the "law" is. Unless you tell us more of what you desire, then you not going to get a different answer.
"If someone asks where the bathroom is you do not reply by asking how long they will be spending in there."
If you want more than 10 minutes in the bathroom, then I would think something was strange, yes. In this case, I am not asking how long. You are implying that 10 minutes is not enough by the vague questioning. Now, try to be more specific if there really is something of substance. |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
It depends. That's why I asked how are those minutes being used? In the office? Then it's not break time. Is the time between classes for you to do whatever you want? Then it is break time.
You need to discern what you and your employer want. What you read on these forums from people is relative to their contract and what they agree to during their employment that isn't etched in stone.
When I worked at a GEPIK school, my co-teacher would record when I came and left the school grounds. This time was carefully monitored and applied as break time, even if it was just 30 minutes a day.
It seems like if you need more time to do something, then you should talk to your school or find another school that will give you more time. I have never had problems rearranging classes with schools after talking with them. |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
I don't see why they wouldnt be considered "break time". Unless the school had asked you to take care of students during that time, in which case it should be in writing in your contract and you could ask for some break time. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
Your 10 minute breaks do not count toward break time. You must get a 30 minute break if you work more than 4 hours up to 8 hours. If you work 8 hours you should get either 1 hour long break or two 30 minute breaks.
However, your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time either, and neither does your 40 minute break. Do you actually work 8 hours, not including any break time?
Additionally, your break time can be either at the beginning or the end of your work day, as well as in the middle. So, if you have any non-teaching time at all at the beginning or end, and if you complain, then that can be designated as "break" time. As a final outcome, your boss can arrange for your additional break time by increasing the length of your day by 30 minutes, and then letting you have it as a break. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
Your 10 minute breaks do not count toward break time. You must get a 30 minute break if you work more than 4 hours up to 8 hours. If you work 8 hours you should get either 1 hour long break or two 30 minute breaks.
However, your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time either, and neither does your 40 minute break. Do you actually work 8 hours, not including any break time?
Additionally, your break time can be either at the beginning or the end of your work day, as well as in the middle. So, if you have any non-teaching time at all at the beginning or end, and if you complain, then that can be designated as "break" time. As a final outcome, your boss can arrange for your additional break time by increasing the length of your day by 30 minutes, and then letting you have it as a break. |
"However, your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time either"
They sure do with me if I am in the office working. I teach 40 minute classes (in fact, I have always taught 40 minute classes). Sometimes there is a 10 minute gap between classes, sometimes there is a 50 minute gap when I work a 3 class block with one period off followed by a 4th class. Any break in between classes that I am in the office is noted and treated as office time.
A good formula to use is the 3:4 system. You teach either 3 or 4 classes in a 5 or 4 block period. For example, you could teach 2 classes, take a break, and then teach 2 more 50 minutes later. Even between the 2 classes there is 10 minutes (20 total) where you would be working in the office preparing/getting ready for that second class.
You should be credited with 1 hour of office time in this case. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| From what I have read others state on this forum is that time in between classes is not considered "break time". This is why I had my original question. So what you are telling me is that the other posters are mistaken and time between classes is break time? |
Your 10 minute breaks do not count toward break time. You must get a 30 minute break if you work more than 4 hours up to 8 hours. If you work 8 hours you should get either 1 hour long break or two 30 minute breaks.
However, your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time either, and neither does your 40 minute break. Do you actually work 8 hours, not including any break time?
Additionally, your break time can be either at the beginning or the end of your work day, as well as in the middle. So, if you have any non-teaching time at all at the beginning or end, and if you complain, then that can be designated as "break" time. As a final outcome, your boss can arrange for your additional break time by increasing the length of your day by 30 minutes, and then letting you have it as a break. |
"However, your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time either"
They sure do with me if I am in the office working. I teach 40 minute classes (in fact, I have always taught 40 minute classes). Sometimes there is a 10 minute gap between classes, sometimes there is a 50 minute gap when I work a 3 class block with one period off followed by a 4th class. Any break in between classes that I am in the office is noted and treated as office time.
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However ...
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... That's why I asked how are those minutes being used? ... Is the time between classes for you to do whatever you want? Then it is break time.
You need to discern what you and your employer want. What you read on these forums from people is relative to their contract and what they agree to during their employment that isn't etched in stone. |
Which is why ...
| Quote: |
| ... your 10 minute breaks do not count toward work time ... |
... because breaks are not work time. Even if you choose to do paperwork during break time it is not work time. Only if you are required to work during that time period does it become work time, or if both parties agree to count the time as work time. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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You seem to have misunderstood what I typed. Please reread.
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| Only if you are required to work during that time period does it become work time, or if both parties agree to count the time as work time. |
No, the rule is as follows:
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| "(1)An employer shall allow a recess period of more than 30 minutes for every 4 working hours and more than 1 hour for every 8 working hours during the working hours." |
They are not required to give you 10 minutes between 2 classes until 4 hours is up. This is similar to working any office job. You are required to work the WHOLE hour even though a class might be 40-50 minutes. It is customary in the business for the school to not push it though and as long as you are prepared for the next class they don't complain if you aren't in the office.
It's the other way around.
Only if you agree to take a break (part of a break) during that time period does it become break time, or if both parties agree to count the time as work time (which they don't need to do, this is redundant). |
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