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Juggertha
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Anyang, Korea
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject: I wish I were... |
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Ok, here it is. I'm admiting that my memory is finally falling off. Old lessons I learned back in school are leaking out everytime I make a right hand turn  so... I have a grammar question;
I wish I were
v.s.
I wish I was
What sentance is correct
"I wish I were prettier." or
"I wish I was prettier."
Is this just me having a brain fart or is there a rule that i'm forgetting here?  |
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Michelle
Joined: 18 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:15 pm Post subject: Is it just me? |
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Is it just me or are both of them fine?
I would use either of these happily.
Maybe that is why you're having a hard time.
Do not worry. I am open to vemenant disagreement from Grammar Gurus. Bring it on. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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were
| Quote: |
| Older, prescriptive grammar books insist on the use of the subjunctive form were. Most modern, descriptive grammar books accept both were and was as being grammatically acceptable, but they suggest that I wish I were is more appropriate in formal contexts. |
http://www.english-international.com/test.html
| Quote: |
The Grammar Doctor
if I were or subjunctive mood
Guidelines
Certain statements require a different form of the verb. These include hypothetical statements in " if" clauses and statements that express wishes, requests, or recommendations. This form is called the subjunctive;
I would not do that if I were you. (The " if" clause in this sentence is hypothetical. I am not you, so the subjunctive is used--if I were you, not if I was you.)
I wish he were half as smart as he thinks he is. (The sentence expresses a wish, so the subjunctive is used--I wish he were, not I wish he was.)
My brother recommended that the minutes be read. (This sentence expresses a recommendation, so the subjunctive is used--the minutes be read, not the minutes are read.)
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Rules
1. Use " were" in place of " was."
if I were you
if he were here
2. In requests, demands, etc., use the base form of the verb (e.g. " be" rather than " am," " is," " are," etc.
I recommend that our meeting date be changed.
They insisted that the report be finished by the deadline.
Our attorney advised that the manager tell everyone the bad news. |
http://members.aol.com/drcarlperrin/subjunctive1.html
Last edited by Bulsajo on Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: I wish I were... |
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| Juggertha wrote: |
Ok, here it is. I'm admiting that my memory is finally falling off. Old lessons I learned back in school are leaking out everytime I make a right hand turn so... I have a grammar question;
I wish I were
v.s.
I wish I was
What sentance is correct
"I wish I were prettier." or
"I wish I was prettier."
Is this just me having a brain fart or is there a rule that i'm forgetting here? |
Perhaps it's both a brain fart and a rule that you've forgotten.
The sentences you wrote above are past subjunctive in tense and mood and the correct form is, "I wish (that) I were prettier." The sentence is composed of two clauses. First, an independent clause: "I wish." Second, a relative clause: "(that) I were prettier." That is a restrictive relative clause marker in this case. Omitting the relative clause marker is an indication of colloquial language. Including the relative clause marker is an indication of literary language. Note that the term literary here does not necessarily mean that the word "that" must appear in examples of this sentence pattern in literature. It's just a technical term for a style of language and its popularity has risen and fallen and risen throughout the history of the English language. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: I wish I were... |
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| prosodic wrote: |
Perhaps it's both a brain fart and a rule that you've forgotten.
The sentences you wrote above are past subjunctive in tense and mood and the correct form is, "I wish (that) I were prettier." The sentence is composed of two clauses. First, an independent clause: "I wish." Second, a relative clause: "(that) I were prettier." That is a restrictive relative clause marker in this case. Omitting the relative clause marker is an indication of colloquial language. Including the relative clause marker is an indication of literary language. Note that the term literary here does not necessarily mean that the word "that" must appear in examples of this sentence pattern in literature. It's just a technical term for a style of language and its popularity has risen and fallen and risen throughout the history of the English language. |
Wow! Very nicely done. I learned something from you today. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
were
| Quote: |
| Older, prescriptive grammar books insist on the use of the subjunctive form were. Most modern, descriptive grammar books accept both were and was as being grammatically acceptable, but they suggest that I wish I were is more appropriate in formal contexts. |
http://www.english-international.com/test.html
| Quote: |
The Grammar Doctor
if I were or subjunctive mood
Guidelines
Certain statements require a different form of the verb. These include hypothetical statements in " if" clauses and statements that express wishes, requests, or recommendations. This form is called the subjunctive;
I would not do that if I were you. (The " if" clause in this sentence is hypothetical. I am not you, so the subjunctive is used--if I were you, not if I was you.)
I wish he were half as smart as he thinks he is. (The sentence expresses a wish, so the subjunctive is used--I wish he were, not I wish he was.)
My brother recommended that the minutes be read. (This sentence expresses a recommendation, so the subjunctive is used--the minutes be read, not the minutes are read.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rules
1. Use " were" in place of " was."
if I were you
if he were here
2. In requests, demands, etc., use the base form of the verb (e.g. " be" rather than " am," " is," " are," etc.
I recommend that our meeting date be changed.
They insisted that the report be finished by the deadline.
Our attorney advised that the manager tell everyone the bad news. |
http://members.aol.com/drcarlperrin/subjunctive1.html |
This is a far better answer than I gave. Actually, I think I'm in love with you Bulsajo. |
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Juggertha
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Anyang, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you so much for the informed replies. |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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A good dictionary will answer this for you and your students. The best one is the Oxford Advanced Learners'. Also available on the net.
Above answers cover the point well.
A point my rapid scanning didn't spot so I will risk repeating it....
American English makes much more use of the subjunctive than British English.
So,
'I wish I were a woman' is more likely in the US.
'I wish I was a woman' is more likely in Britain.
Liklihood is more of a guide than correctness. Teach the students to say things they might actually want to say.
So - 'I wish I was a woman' is clearly suspect here. Not many would say this....
'I wish I was taller' is probably better - though not as memorable as my transsexual example.
I learned once that subjunctive is for things that are impossible - and only raised as a theoretical argument. But this distinction is blurry in British English - a philosophy question beyond the scope of EFL IMO. If I am unclear about this, it's beyond the scope of an EFL class.
BTW - wish is also a more formal word for want. 'I wish to visit Vietnam.'
This causes a certain measure of confusion for students. ThanK god English is difficult - or any clown could teach it. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| prosodic wrote: |
| This is a far better answer than I gave. Actually, I think I'm in love with you Bulsajo. |
I think you might be in love with Google... I knew the answer but couldn't explain it as well as others already had on the internet... life is grand with search engines.
A nice pocket-sized grammar reference book is Larousse English Grammar for Learners. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| prosodic wrote: |
| This is a far better answer than I gave. Actually, I think I'm in love with you Bulsajo. |
I think you might be in love with Google... I knew the answer but couldn't explain it as well as others already had on the internet... life is grand with search engines. |
No. It was the penguins. Now that you've changed your avatar, I don't love you anymore. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Pearl Jam wrote: |
i wish i was a sentimental
ornament you hung on
the Christmas tree, i wish i was
the star that went on top |
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