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New noise laws in Korea - from today
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atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:14 am Post subject:

byrddogs wrote:

The board would take a hit if 'rails suddenly quit posting. Has he ever been a thread starting poster or has it always been a jump in there on other's threads and drive them to pages upon pages thing?

casey jones prefers to derail.

byrddogs

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:19 am Post subject:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

casey jones prefers to derail.

That's the reason I ask. If people weren't starting threads in the first place then he would cease to exist on here, right? Maybe he can step up/change his game and start a thread or two for people to post in.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:24 am Post subject:

byrddogs wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

casey jones prefers to derail.

I don't think that dog's gonna hunt. Very Happy

He did start one thread in the very title of which he said he expected it to start a row and then when it did he started throwing around the race card.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:12 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Mix1 wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

atwood wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

[

(1) "Need to defend Korea"...What about a "need to attack Korea", which seems just as prevalent and reflexive in posters, and has the added stench of being aggressive and insulting. Why is there not the same rigor applied to those individuals?..

(2) Anyways, what the heck am I writing here? A mea culpa? The point is I've discussed the break with other posters, I've wanted to do it, I just moved to the big city and a new job, so now is as good a time as any. Give me a day or two to wind down and I'll give some serious thought to retiring this old bag of wind account.

(3) But before you cheer, I do ask- look inside yourselves and consider the way you look at Korea and the people here and whether it is truly accurate and whether the manner you do so is truly the right one. Stop the bigotry.

I just wanted to respond to a few points you raised here..so I took the liberty of editing your post.

1. I agree with this. I'd also like to point out that there are numerous threads bashing Korea...yet I have yet to see a thread explicitly created for the purpose of praising Korea. It is of course possible that I've missed it...but if not that says something about each side (bashers vs apologists)

2. Not much to say about this...it's certainly your choice but I for one hope you don't leave.

3. Agreed.

There have been threads here along the lines of what do you like about Korea or best things about Korea. Maybe not outright praise, but positive in intention.

I think the noise laws are a good thing. I know they won't be strongly enforced, but it does send a message about respecting your neighbors.

Yes but much fewer than the bashing side.

So what? Is there a quota system going on here?
Anyway the imbalance should tell you something: there is likely cause for some complaints/bashing or we wouldn't be seeing it so much. I'd argue that what most of what you'd call "bashing" is observation... and observations don't always show the positive side.

Also, one thing I've noticed with a lot of long-termers/lifers/apologists here... is that they often have the SAME complaints as everyone else, but bottle them up or feel guilty about them... then try to shame others when they try to express a complaint. Sound familiar?

Quote:

Noise complaints from residents of apartment complexes have skyrocketed, with 7,021 cases in 2012, nearly 20 times more than the previous year, according to the South Korean Ministry of Environment

A nearly TWENTY-FOLD increase over the past year. It would appear that Koreans are starting to become more vocal. Certainly not the "sheeple" that certain posters delight in painting them as. They are getting fed up and now that there are laws in place they can actually get something done about it.

So the locals are complaining about the noise too now? Excellent! Thanks for proving our point that it's noisy here.

But... why not criticize the locals for complaining too? Or are the noise complaints suddenly legit when they start to complain about the same thing? Heck, there have been MURDERS over stomping here. Talk about "over-reacting".
Where's Steelrails on this? Let me guess: another double standard /free pass when it comes to Koreans doing anything that could be criticized.

Please point out where I (not Mr. Steelrails) but I (TheUrbanMyth) said it was NOT noisy here. Certainly it is and Mr. Steelrails admitted as much. Whether it is as noisy in other countries is debatable but that's not what I'm pointing out.

There's a difference between complaining and racism...it's generally when those on the first side veer over to the other is when I speak up. Heck I've complained about Korea now and then myself. Complaining is fine...racism and xenophobia cloaked as complaining not so much.

Nice try. Show me one racist comment I made here. If not, take a hike and stop trying to imply racism where it doesn't exist. I said they are loud. That's it. I stand by that. Pretty sure every one else is on that page too. Except you and SR.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:02 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:

I'd argue that what most of what you'd call "bashing" is observation... and observations don't always show the positive side.

Here is the difference between observation and "bashing"- Korea has one of the highest rates of traffic accidents in the OECD. This might be because of a lack of sufficient driver education, poor enforcement of traffic regulations, traffic density or a rushed society?

contrast that with-

Koreans are krazy klown drivers. No regard for safety or others. Clueless peasants in suits.

That's not observation or even criticism. That is bigotry and hatred.

Even intermediate ones like "Koreans are the worst drivers in the world. Do they have any regard for safety? Do they even consider other people? Back home people would NEVER drive like this."

Of course what follows is that an "apologist" brings up examples/stats from back home and is then attacked for bringing up back home.So the locals are complaining about the noise too now? Excellent! Thanks for proving our point that it's noisy here.

Quote:

So the locals are complaining about the noise too now? Excellent! Thanks for proving our point that it's noisy here.

And here we have an example of the poor quality of thinking that takes place.

And here we have an example of a JOKE about you going completely over your head (as usual). I'm showing your hypocrisy that you wouldn't care when locals complain and think it's noisy, but a foreigner has the gall to mention it, he's suddenly exaggerating or over-reacting. And you have the gall to say anything about "poor quality thinking". Fail.

And, don't put words in my mouth: I never wrote any of those statements above you claim are bigoted, and don't try to lump me in with anyone who said "Klown" when I actually denounced it on the other thread.

Quote:

Again, simplistic grade-school level conclusion. Take an isolated incident and declare it a trend.

And your reading comprehension sucks as usual. I never declared it a trend. That sentence can and does refer to isolated incidents.

That's rich for you to call anything "simplistic" or commenting on "fails of logic". It went over your head again; I'm pointing out your hypocrisy at saying foreigners are overreacting to the noise, yet you have instances where locals have killed each other over the noise. That's some serious overreaction, which DOES show there may be cause for noise complaints. But anyone on here tries to mention any noise, and you blow a gasket.

Quote:

Yeah, why would I want to read a post or story about positive experiences between black and white people, when I could just read about how black people suck. Rolling Eyes

More complete BS. Don't put words in my mouth. Nobody said Koreans "suck" they said they are "loud". Big difference, Einstein.

Also, I'll say to you what I said to TUM: show me one racist thing I wrote. NOT what you IMAGINE to be racist, but is actually a racist statement, or if not... F-off and quit implying it. Biased statements, maybe... racist, no. You are doing what you always do: twist words, make shit up, and write extreme examples and try to pin them on people. It's BS.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

casey jones prefers to derail.

I don't think that dog's gonna hunt. Very Happy

He did start one thread in the very title of which he said he expected it to start a row and then when it did he started throwing around the race card.

Star Trek vs. Star Wars anyone?

byrddogs

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:27 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

casey jones prefers to derail.

I don't think that dog's gonna hunt. Very Happy

He did start one thread in the very title of which he said he expected it to start a row and then when it did he started throwing around the race card.

Star Trek vs. Star Wars anyone?

Ah, yes, the ever controversial ST v. SW. That's a start; what else do you have?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:18 am Post subject:

byrddogs wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

atwood wrote:

byrddogs wrote:

casey jones prefers to derail.

I don't think that dog's gonna hunt. Very Happy

He did start one thread in the very title of which he said he expected it to start a row and then when it did he started throwing around the race card.

Star Trek vs. Star Wars anyone?

Ah, yes, the ever controversial ST v. SW. That's a start; what else do you have?

I could lob some Canada vs. US bombs if you so desire.

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:44 am Post subject:

New thread direction: let's debate this.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:15 am Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

New thread direction: let's debate this.

If you read nothing on that site, you can still take away the glorious Korean-Canadian (and shades of Scottish?) flag.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

[

No. No deal. I remember why I left this site for months again. And why all the reasonable people who used to post here are gone, too. So, thanks for that.

No need to thank me...I'm quite ready and willing to point it out whenever you are falsely attributing words and attitudes to myself.

You're very welcome.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

Nice try. Show me one racist comment I made here.

Show me where I said YOU were making racist comments.

I make an offhand comment about the racism and xenophobia that crop up sometimes on this board...and immediately you somehow deduce that's directed at you?

(Just for the record it wasn't directed at you at all or anyone else in this particular thread.)

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject:

Zyzyfer wrote:

[
That sucks. I once tried offering some constructive criticism to TUM, suggesting not being so literal about everything people post. I can see how that suggestion was taken...

If people are going to make false comments about what I said...it's fair game to point that out. And it hardly lends itself to anything else then being "literal".

If I were to say something like "Zyzyfer, why are you always complaining that this board is full of racists" (which was more or less what Black Cat's comment to me was about) wouldn't you be annoyed? Particularly if you'd never said that?

Come on now.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Mix1 wrote:

Nice try. Show me one racist comment I made here.

Good.

Intentionally or not, you (and SR) certainly do have a habit of throwing out the "racist" tag, and indirectly lumping people together under it in a very insidious way. And we know how you guys feel about anyone else trying to "lump" anyone together, don't we?

Last edited by Mix1 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Zyzyfer

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

If I were to say something like "Zyzyfer, why are you always complaining that this board is full of racists" (which was more or less what Black Cat's comment to me was about) wouldn't you be annoyed? Particularly if you'd never said that?

Come on now.

I'm not even referring to something like that.

On another thread, you just wrote this:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

And I never said the majority of KOREANS and neither did he. He simply said "Koreans in Korea have overwhelmingly called out this program out as racist, misogynistic and shitty"

Now that was in response to something Mr. BlackCat wrote. Your whole refutation hinges around the fact that you and this writer didn't say "majority". No, you both said "Koreans in Korea". Now I didn't closely read the exchange between you two prior to that, and maybe in this instance, there was clear reasoning to highlight the nuanced difference which exists there, based on what Mr. BlackCat had written.

But here's the thing. When I read your first post, I sided with the case you were making, that there were some Koreans who hated on the MBC program. I know I am not every poster, but as far as I was concerned, that was game, set and match. It didn't matter where Mr. BlackCat went from there in my opinion. Nevertheless, you counter his next point by leading with semantics.

Like I said, it may well have been a valid stance to take in that particular instance. But I have often seen you build your entire argument around a stringent request for statistical evidence from your opponent to prove their point before the discussion is able to go any further. Or you get hung up on the lack of qualifiers in someone's writing. One of your more classic catch-all comebacks to Korea "bashers" is mentioning that the poster couldn't have possibly met every single Korean in the country, and therefore their opinion has been invalidated because of that. It's correct, but it's rather pedantic, in my opinion, and these sorts of pithy discussions drive casual users and lurkers away. No, I am not digging up statistics for that. It will have to stand as an anecdotal opinion and nothing more.

I get that it's a two-way street. Someone has to post something that could be considered in poor taste to begin with in order to evoke responses like that from you, or Steelrails novellas which are perfectly suited for political/military discussions but come off as excessive when talking about Korean superficiality or lack of responsibility. If stupid people didn't post stupid things then you lot in the "apologist" camp wouldn't write the things you write. Steelrails was great over on Gorf's short-lived board; the vibe was different from here and it was much easier to approach his posts. He was also far less prolific of a poster there.

But things like the ferry thread? That isn't some chatty and inevitably meaningless thread that should get pigeon-holed into an argument over Korean culture. If something deemed offensive was written there, why not report it to the mods and let them decide, and keep the thread a little cleaner? Or the exchange rate thread. It was only about how exchanging Korean won to Canadian dollars is profitable at the moment. And yet the first post was about where the won should be. Where the won should be is a different discussion.

I've said my piece enough already. Other users are starting to speak up as well. These tiresome arguments that both sides are propelling detract from the enjoyment and/or usefulness that can be derived from those of us who read and post here who have no clear-cut agenda. It would be nice if people would tone down the agenda-laden posts (on both sides) so that discussions can be discussions instead of pithy counter-arguments. The only reason I have singled the "apologists" out is because I tend to agree with your key points. But the way you argue your points makes it harder for people who want to agree with your main point to do that.

But it's up to you (all) to listen me or not. It's just a suggestion from a fellow poster on this board. And I've come to realize that I've let myself get sucked in too far and am contributing to the problem as well, so this is my last comment on this issue, and I am going to revert to lurking or maybe even less than that for a little while, as I've become jaded with the place all over again.

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