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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:14 am    Post subject: the Reply with quote

Is this conversation incorrect?

Im going to buy some cakes
where?
at the paris baguette.
which one?
the one next to the fire-station.

or how about this one?

I'm going to buy some milk.
where?
At the e-mart.
Which one?
the one next to cafe bene.

(apart from my lack of capitals etc.)

Thanks
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Sesame



Joined: 16 Mar 2014

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about you focus on the correct way to write FIRE STATION. WITHOUT a hyphen.
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Overture1928



Joined: 12 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: the Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:
Is this conversation incorrect?

Im going to buy some cakes
where?
at the paris baguette.
which one?
the one next to the fire-station.

or how about this one?

I'm going to buy some milk.
where?
At the e-mart.
Which one?
the one next to cafe bene.

(apart from my lack of capitals etc.)

Thanks


Don't know if it is officially incorrect but it doesn't sound correct/natural. I will correct this sort of writing on tests/papers. We don't say "I am going to the McDonalds" but we do say "I am going to the McDonalds near my house." We don't use "the" when talking about a place that is a proper noun (Detroit, Africa, Starbucks). But we do use "the" when we want to specify a specific one out of many.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: the Reply with quote

Overture1928 wrote:
le-paul wrote:
Is this conversation incorrect?

Im going to buy some cakes
where?
at the paris baguette.
which one?
the one next to the fire-station.

or how about this one?

I'm going to buy some milk.
where?
At the e-mart.
Which one?
the one next to cafe bene.

(apart from my lack of capitals etc.)

Thanks


Don't know if it is officially incorrect but it doesn't sound correct/natural. I will correct this sort of writing on tests/papers. We don't say "I am going to the McDonalds" but we do say "I am going to the McDonalds near my house." We don't use "the" when talking about a place that is a proper noun (Detroit, Africa, Starbucks). But we do use "the" when we want to specify a specific one out of many.


Thanks.

thats why I'm having trouble with it. the article and proper noun rule seem to go out the window to me, because it doesn't feel unnatural to say 'the Paris Baguette'. Confused
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. "the Paris Baguette" is OK if you specify which one.

I got this at the Paris Baguette we visited last week.
I got this at the Paris Baguette next to Starbucks.
etc.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
I agree. "the Paris Baguette" is OK if you specify which one.

I got this at the Paris Baguette we visited last week.
I got this at the Paris Baguette next to Starbucks.
etc.


Thanks
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
I agree. "the Paris Baguette" is OK if you specify which one.

I got this at the Paris Baguette we visited last week.
I got this at the Paris Baguette next to Starbucks.
etc.


Around where I live you have to be even MORE specific when describing which Paris Baguette next to the Starbucks.
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOKIE wrote:

Quote:
Around where I live you have to be even MORE specific when describing which Paris Baguette next to the Starbucks.


Ha! Good point. So true indeed. I should have written:

I got this at the Paris Baguette next to the Starbucks that opened up around the corner on July 1st. No, not the one that opened at exactly 9 AM, the one that opened a bit later. (And if there was still any confusion, perhaps I'd have to add "No, not that corner - the other one!")

Actually, I think there's always a DD closer than a SB to a PB, so this opens up an entirely new problem....
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Fuzzy_Dunlop



Joined: 18 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's bee answered pretty clearly already, but I'll throw this in:

1. We don't use the to talk about things in general. The does not mean "all".

e.g. Elephants can swim very well. (NOT The elephants can swim very well.)

e.g. Paris Baguette is a good bakery. (NOT The Paris Baguette is a good bakery.)

For specific examples, the is used.

e.g. The elephant can swim very well.

e.g. The Paris Baguette next to my house burned down.

Practical English Usage (Swan) - Section 62.

2. When general reference is made to all members of a class of count nouns, the is not used.

e.g. Salt is bad for you. (NOT The salt is bad for you.)

For a specific reference, the is used.

e.g. Please pass the salt.


Cambridge Grammar of English - Section 196a
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
HOKIE wrote:

Quote:
Around where I live you have to be even MORE specific when describing which Paris Baguette next to the Starbucks.


Ha! Good point. So true indeed. I should have written:

I got this at the Paris Baguette next to the Starbucks that opened up around the corner on July 1st. No, not the one that opened at exactly 9 AM, the one that opened a bit later. (And if there was still any confusion, perhaps I'd have to add "No, not that corner - the other one!")

Actually, I think there's always a DD closer than a SB to a PB, so this opens up an entirely new problem....


Haha exactly.
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